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PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 9:21 am 
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Chris Knight wrote:
Eric wrote:
And Poe? Other than being a good pilot, was there something there I missed?

In three sequences, he showed his piloting skills were over-the-top amazing, something we have only ever seen from Anakin, and (if you watch clone wars) other Jedi. This film reinforced the "Jedi are awesome pilots" with Rey's improvised Falcon getaway. There is NO WAY he's not strong with the force (and perhaps a reason Leia sent him on the initial mission in the first place, and also perhaps why we never got the "this will give it away" C plot).


So, just to be full on OT... Rey and Poe are brother and sister, and we only find out after a love triangle is set up with Finn.

Giant JJ balls if that happens.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 9:24 am 
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Monterey Jack wrote:
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I'm glad you were able to see it with your family too, that's great.


How did your kids like it?

Standing ovation.

I missed the reveal of Kylo Ren being Han's son, took Eva to the bathroom, but my wife says Nick was in full on geeking out mode. My wife was good enough to sneak over to me and whisper what I had missed (we were in the front row). I don't think she realizes how many points she earned from that.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 11:29 am 
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Ericubus wrote:
Jar-Jar on the balcony would have been AWESOME!

No, it wouldn't have made sense. He was a temporary senator, which was dissolved when the first Death Star's construction was completed. Had he still been in office at that time, he would have returned to Naboo. Killing him off as a joke, would be like...oh, having a sith lord shredding up a room with a lightsaber, then cutting to two storm troopers noping the fuck out of there.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 11:48 am 
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Chris Knight wrote:
Ericubus wrote:
Jar-Jar on the balcony would have been AWESOME!

No, it wouldn't have made sense. He was a temporary senator, which was dissolved when the first Death Star's construction was completed. Had he still been in office at that time, he would have returned to Naboo. Killing him off as a joke, would be like...oh, having a sith lord shredding up a room with a lightsaber, then cutting to two storm troopers noping the fuck out of there.
Which was also funny, and completely in line with the character and situation. He is an emotional wreck, and not yet a master of him emotions, like Vader was. Basically, he is a whiny, force strong, Vader fan-boy.

Jar-jar was an elected representative, serving temporarily as a senator, and it would have made perfect sense for him to later become an elected senator after the republic was re-established. The films never give any indication how long Gungans live, so, why not? He was basically a hero, and if you include the Clone War series, had many political connections and acts of valor.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 1:18 pm 
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Chris Knight wrote:
Ericubus wrote:
Jar-Jar on the balcony would have been AWESOME!

No, it wouldn't have made sense. He was a temporary senator, which was dissolved when the first Death Star's construction was completed.


...and then reinstated with the second Death Star was destroyed. After which, presumably, new elections would be held and a former representative/temporary senator might have stood for election.

Fan service? Yeah. Possibly too much and it'd take you out of the movie. But plausible, and I bet there'd be theaters where it got a standing ovation if it'd been in there.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 2:54 pm 
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Eric wrote:
Fan service? Yeah. Possibly too much and it'd take you out of the movie. But plausible, and I bet there'd be theaters where it got a standing ovation if it'd been in there.

Not really. As much as the internet wants the prequels to vanish into oblivion, there is an entire generation of fans that like them as much, or more than, the original trilogy. Jar Jar included. Yes, really.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 5:00 pm 
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Chris Knight wrote:
As much as the internet wants the prequels to vanish into oblivion, there is an entire generation of fans that like them as much, or more than, the original trilogy. Jar Jar included. Yes, really.


Spoiler: show
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 5:39 pm 
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We will most likely never know, but I love this theory...

Quote:
"Please remember that China, which TFA hasn't been released to yet, is the most important factor outside of North America when it concerns to a film's global tally. Star Wars is not an established brand in China. The Original Trilogy wasn't released in China and the prequels performed abysmally. So TFA is going to be marketed by Disney as basically a new franchise, which isn't a great for a franchise installment that has relied so heavily on nostalgia."

**that is why I think the 77 film was remade as TFA.
Disney is not thinking about the domestic audience at all--it is mainly thinking about China.

A few years ago a studio executive--Dreamworks maybe--said "character nuance is received differently depending on the market-but a robot is a robot around the world."


http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2488496/boa ... #251739609

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:17 pm 
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Chris Knight wrote:
Eric wrote:
Fan service? Yeah. Possibly too much and it'd take you out of the movie. But plausible, and I bet there'd be theaters where it got a standing ovation if it'd been in there.

Not really. As much as the internet wants the prequels to vanish into oblivion, there is an entire generation of fans that like them as much, or more than, the original trilogy. Jar Jar included. Yes, really.


My son likes them.

Of course, he's six. He also likes peanut butter and jelly on his waffles.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 9:46 pm 
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Chris Knight wrote:
Eric wrote:
Fan service? Yeah. Possibly too much and it'd take you out of the movie. But plausible, and I bet there'd be theaters where it got a standing ovation if it'd been in there.

Not really. As much as the internet wants the prequels to vanish into oblivion, there is an entire generation of fans that like them as much, or more than, the original trilogy. Jar Jar included. Yes, really.

I also like them. I have defended them here before. I do think they are a very different animal then the originals, the look and feel were completely different. My wanting, liking, Jar-Jar being there has more to do with what J.J. Abrams is doing with the fan service and the fan fucking all in one. The balls on Mr. Abrams are impressive, this is a guy that got a full treatment from Lucas, and said, thanks, but we are going in a different direction. The Kylo Ren Vader fan-boy being an emotional wreck of a being, all the while providing the look and feel of the original to make those same people he is mocking happy to be mocked, it is beautiful. Having Jar-jar there to be blown up, unceremoniously, would have been a fan service the size of a Star Killer base. And funny as fuck.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 5:24 am 
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Chris Knight wrote:
Other than a single moment in the opening act, I can't hum a single new Star Wars theme. This is VERY bad. Come on, Disney, the Star Wars music is legendary, including every prequel score.

Eric wrote:
I can't hum any tune introduced later than "The Imperial March" (though both my kids hum that one daily). I do recall thinking the choir-heavy piece of music from the end of Episode I was good, but I can't hum it. Nitpick.


Ever since this exchange, I've had a film score stuck in my head. But not a Star Wars score. I've been walking around humming the main theme to the Back to the Future movies. No idea why, but I blame Chris Knight.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 7:56 am 
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I think the reason why TFA lacks memorable new themes for the characters is because Williams was forced to tinker with his music over the course of nearly a YEAR (even being forced to drop out of working on Steven Spielberg's Bridge Of Spies), so most of his score is basically frantic action and chase music as the movie kept getting changed over and over. The OT scores allowed Williams the chance to create stand-alone, almost concert-ized action cues with clear beginnings, middles and ends (check out the great "Asteroid Chase" cue from Empire), as well as clearly-defined characters he could create distinctive themes for. I can't recall new themes for Rey, Finn, Kylo Ren, or anyone else, really.

Then again, film music has become horrendous over the last fifteen years, and Williams is one of the last "silver age" greats still alive and working, so I'll take what I can get. The idea of a Star Wars movie scored by Hans Zimmer or one of his lackeys horrifies me.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 8:10 am 
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Monterey Jack wrote:
The idea of a Star Wars movie scored by Hans Zimmer or one of his lackeys horrifies me.

For all intents and purposes, the TFA score was a Disney-Zimmer score. Duel Of The Fates was released as a single, and MTV played it on Total Request Live for nearly two weeks straight. The original SW theme was turned into a bazillion disco themes in 1977. These were pop hits. Star Wars music is arguably the most important aspect of these films.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 8:12 am 
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I am hopeful that a Special Edition of The Force Awakens will have a digitally embedded Jar-Jar on the balcony.

The beauty of this hope is that JJ had this Special Edition addition planned all along.

As a "Fuck You" to the Special Editions where Lucas shoe-horned in anything and everything.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 10:04 am 
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Pender wrote:
I am hopeful that a Special Edition of The Force Awakens will have a digitally embedded Jar-Jar on the balcony.

The beauty of this hope is that JJ had this Special Edition addition planned all along.

As a "Fuck You" to the Special Editions where Lucas shoe-horned in anything and everything.
Actually, that's a pretty funny and good idea. On the home video release, have a Special Internet Edition, where they add in all the top stuff people say they wanted. Like Jar-Jar on the balcony, Han not dying but landing on some ledge and getting up, Kylo Ren having some fucked up face under that mask, Finn not being black, etc etc etc...

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 10:09 am 
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I've heard some folks are upset that Han died. Did no one read any of the interviews with Harrison Ford over the past 30 years where he said the ONLY way he'd be in another Star Wars film was if Han Solo died?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 10:15 am 
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Kimfair wrote:
I've heard some folks are upset that Han died. Did no one read any of the interviews with Harrison Ford over the past 30 years where he said the ONLY way he'd be in another Star Wars film was if Han Solo died?
... and it still surprised me.

I'm not upset about it, big balls and big moment in the film franchise and the development of Whiney-lo Ren, but I will miss Han, he was funny as hell in it.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 10:22 am 
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Even if Abrams doesn't do that, it's a sure bet that somebody will.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 11:07 am 
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It was stupid and unwarranted. You don't bring back a character after 30 years, just to kill him in off a scene that doesn't have any emotional impact. It would have worked in the next film, but he and Leia still deserve a happily-ever-after, considering the build-up in the first trilogy. Otherwise, what was the point? And why give a shit about the Young Han Solo film being developed, now that we know his fate?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 12:02 pm 
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I teared up.

Even though I knew it was coming.

I still teared up to see Solo die.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 12:09 pm 
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I hadn't heard the whole "Finn needs to not be black" thing. Is that really a thing?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 12:58 pm 
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Pender wrote:
I hadn't heard the whole "Finn needs to not be black" thing. Is that really a thing?

Unfortunately, yes.

It is without a doubt the dumbest film racism protest I have ever heard of. As many came back immediately with, this is a universe with squid admirals and werewolf cantina patrons, but a black storm-trooper?!? Storm-troopers belong to the KKK, Muther Fucker, how dare you!?!?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 1:01 pm 
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One more nod to JJ. How brilliantly were those trailers edited to not really give away anything? Well done, Sir.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 1:21 pm 
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Ericubus wrote:
Pender wrote:
I hadn't heard the whole "Finn needs to not be black" thing. Is that really a thing?

Unfortunately, yes.

It is without a doubt the dumbest film racism protest I have ever heard of. As many came back immediately with, this is a universe with squid admirals and werewolf cantina patrons, but a black storm-trooper?!? Storm-troopers belong to the KKK, Muther Fucker, how dare you!?!?

:shock:

Holy crap.

I had missed all that, I guess.

Seems that even Star Wars has racist fans. What a bummer.

But really, Boba Fett's father (and father to all the original Storm Trooper clone armies) was Maori and very much NOT white.

Until then, we never really saw a Storm Trooper.

People keep on boggling my mind.

:roll:

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 2:33 pm 
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Chris Knight wrote:
And why give a shit about the Young Han Solo film being developed, now that we know his fate?


Everyone dies eventually, so why give a shit about anything they do beforehand?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 2:34 pm 
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Ericubus wrote:
It is without a doubt the dumbest film racism protest I have ever heard of. As many came back immediately with, this is a universe with squid admirals and werewolf cantina patrons, but a black storm-trooper?!? Storm-troopers belong to the KKK, Muther Fucker, how dare you!?!?


"Aren't you a little black to be a Stormtrooper...?"

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 2:50 pm 
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Monterey Jack wrote:
Chris Knight wrote:
And why give a shit about the Young Han Solo film being developed, now that we know his fate?


Everyone dies eventually, so why give a shit about anything they do beforehand?
... and after watching Return of the Jedi, why would any care about Anakin Skywalker?


Personally, I'm looking forward to The Chronicles of Porkins.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 3:02 pm 
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Porkins: He's Alright is gonna rule.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 3:28 pm 
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Pender wrote:
Porkins: He's Alright is gonna rule.
:thumbs:

OK, I'm calling it now. Snoke is the one that impregnated Shmi with Anakin.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 5:51 pm 
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That was Darth Plagueis - not a far fetch if Snork is one and the same. Here's an excerpt from an interview with Richard Marquand about what was planned for the third trilogy, way back in 1983:

Quote:
If you follow the direction, and project into the final trilogy, you realise that you’re going to meet the supreme intellect, and you think how is it possible to create a man who has such profound cunning that he can not only control Darth Vader, but the fate of Luke Skywalker? Control the destiny of the whole galaxy? You’ll be amazed!


Granted, most of what Lucas outlined for this new trilogy was thrown out when Disney moved in, but that seems just a wee bit similar to what we're seeing unfold...

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 1:52 pm 
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Conversation I had just a minute ago...

Das Frau: "What are you reading?"
Ried: "The wikipedia section on casting and filming Episode 7."
Das Frau: [dramatic voice] "The Empire Strikes Back!... The Return of the Jedi!!"
Ried: [reading on]
- "Err.. what was the first one called again?"
- "Just 'Star Wars.' Err, no, actually, it's called 'A New Hope.' Well, that's its episode-title. But it's known as just Star Wars, while the others are knowns as Empire/Jedi, because they titled them after their episode-titles."
- "Uh-huh. Okay, A New Hope. Because what'shisname is the new hope, right?"
- "Right. ...So, what is his name?" [smiles]
- "Jo... Jew... Judas?"
- [bursts out laughing] "'Skywalker.' Were you thinking of Yoda? ...'Judas'... priceless." [laughing on]
- "'SKYWALKER, right! No, yes. Luuuke Skywalker, yes, yes..."

...

- "Heh. Ford was paid 10,000 in the original. Now he got 25 million and shares..."
- "What was his name again? ...'Body'?
- "Are you thinking of 'Bodo?'" [a nearby restaurant is called "Bodos Bootssteg"]
- "I guess. Come one, not Body. Something with S, right? With H and S! Ssss... Ha... Haaa... Harma - 'Kama Sutra'?"
- [bursts out laughing] "WHAT, are you serious?!"
- "Arrrghh... no, so close, sss.... come on..."
- "Solo."
- "RIGHT! 'Solo!!'"
- "Han Solo."
- "Right, right. HAN - SOLO..."
- "Kama Sutra... Judas... I've got to write stuff like this down." [laughing]
- [sheepish moaning] "Mmmm... not the first time I remember things falsly, what."
- "'Falsly'..., yeah..."

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 1:58 pm 
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Finally saw it.

I enjoyed it. Fun, enjoyable movie. For the most part is was solid stuff all around, even if it was Paint By Numbers Star Wars. I'll probably see it again in the theaters and will buy the blu-ray when it comes out.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 2:02 pm 
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Shoe wrote:
Finally saw it.

I enjoyed it. Fun, enjoyable movie. For the most part is was solid stuff all around, even if it was Paint By Numbers Star Wars. I'll probably see it again in the theaters and will buy the blu-ray when it comes out.


Image

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 2:35 pm 
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Ericubus wrote:

Should have done Machete Order. It's no hype. It's the best way to watch them. I'll never watch them in any other order again.

Eric wrote:
But it was fun. Some of the force powers and lightspeed details didn't seem to fit the universe, but other than that, it was the most Star Wars-seeming Star Wars movie since Jedi.

It was too Star Wars, in a way. It was very on the nose. The whole thing was just the original in a new skin. Repaint this, add some decals to that, and wala, your car looks brand new even though under the hood it's still the same damn thing you've been driving for the last 30 years.

That's not a bad thing, mind you. I liked it and look forward to seeing it again.

But JJ Abrams did not bring a single new thing to the table*. It was pure fan service. Sometimes that fan service got me (like anything having to do with Han), and sometimes it made me roll my eyes (like the Death Star Mark III or seeing the same plot again).

That said, I absolutely loved the new characters, with Rey and Kylo Ren the two standouts. Both were fantastic.



*I'm a bit wrong here. Kylo Ren, the villain, was a fresh take on a Star Wars villain, at least as far as the movies are concerned. Essentially just a flipped Luke and Anakin, yes, but the flip makes all the difference. His struggle to maintain the Dark Side sets him up to be one of the most compelling characters of the series, I think,
Monterey Jack wrote:
For those whining that Force Awakens is little more than rejiggered New Hope, remember that the latter was a rejiggered version of The Hidden Fortress...

All due respect, but this is a nonsense argument.

Being inspired and influenced by other films and borrowing from those influences is one thing, and it's something most storytellers do.

Outright just telling the same story again within the same franchise, just rehashing what came before as fan service, is quite another.

It's not a deal breaker by any means, I enjoyed the movie, but it's ABSOLUTELY a valid criticism and it's probably the biggest anchor weighing this thing down.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 2:47 pm 
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Shoe wrote:
Monterey Jack wrote:
For those whining that Force Awakens is little more than rejiggered New Hope, remember that the latter was a rejiggered version of The Hidden Fortress...

All due respect, but this is a nonsense argument.


Also, Lucas has written/spoken about tons of films and books that inspired star wars, but he specifically points to this as the basis for the whole plot:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hero_ ... sand_Faces

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power ... #Star_Wars

Subsequently, many film studios have used that as a template for almost every adventure film (especially Disney). It guarantees ticket sales.

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