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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 10:43 am 
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The re-release is prefaced with a meh 5-10 minute featurette (all fluff; 2 bullshit directors who have nothing to do with this film fill up 90 percent of the content).

However, the new transfer is pretty damn nice, and about as good as a late 70s film can possibly look. In other words, it's grainy as hell, and I'm okay with that. I've never been a fan of the ending of this film, but I adore the first 2 acts immensely - and that's where this new release holds up the best (especially Roy's first encounter).
The framing is perfect in every single shot, and I miss this kind of cinematography in modern cinema (real colour and lighting done on set, and not in post-production). Definitely worth seeing on the big screen, especially if you enjoy this era of filmmaking.

The sound was amazing, so go to a decent theatre for the best experience.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:57 am 
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One of my favorite movies of all time. I really ought to try and see it on the big screen if I can.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:52 am 
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Seeing this in a few hours. Looking forward to it.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:16 pm 
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Chris Knight wrote:
The re-release is prefaced with a meh 5-10 minute featurette (all fluff; 2 bullshit directors who have nothing to do with this film fill up 90 percent of the content).


Plus, jammed with spoilers for the key visual F/X sequences for anyone who has not seen the movie, nice. :flip:

What a treat to see this for the first time on the big screen, though. :)

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:15 am 
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Monterey Jack wrote:
What a treat to see this for the first time on the big screen, though. :)

I enjoyed it on the big screen way back when.

Definitely good stuff and actually had some of the best John Williams' music.

I like that the guy said "fuck you, fuck this, fuck you all - Sell the Kids! I'm never coming back!"

That was funny.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:55 am 
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Pender wrote:
I like that the guy said "fuck you, fuck this, fuck you all - Sell the Kids! I'm never coming back!"

Yeah, it's one of the reasons I'm not a fan of the ending. Roy just abandons his family. He had, what, 5 preteen kids? Given that he'll be gone for maybe 30+ years, that's really a dick move, and it makes him as relatable as the asshole teenage aliens (who do nothing but knowingly cause mayhem in the first act of the movie).

At least in Explorers, it's teenage humans encountering other teenage aliens, and they are equally let down by each other. The resolution in that film makes far more sense.

In Real Men, the aliens just want a glass of water, and John Ritter learns to accept the absurdity of it all. It's a ridiculous McGuffin, but this is an ending that doesn't involve the humans or aliens being colossal assholes.

I think Spielberg painted himself into a corner. You spend the entire time rooting for Roy to meet aliens, and then when he does, he flips the audience the bird. But without him getting on the ship, the journey seems pointless. I mean, he could have just said hi, said "thanks for the migraines," and let them be on their way...

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:34 am 
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Spielberg has said that he could never make CE3K the same way after becoming a father himself, because he could never imagine abandoning his family.

The whole movie is a big metaphor for artistic obsession swallowing up everything else in a person's life, and as thus it's a film Spielberg could have only made when he was an unattached young man who had yet to hit thirty. On that level, I find the movie powerful and meaningful, as I totally can relate with poor Roy Neary, clearly trying to be the good father and husband that society has contrived for him and unable to reconcile his maddening psychic visions with the unsympathetic wife and kids who label him a "crybaby" instead of trying to help the poor bastard. I would probably think differently if I had a "normal" life with a girlfriend/wife and children of my own, but as someone who watches roughly 360 movies a year, CE3K is a movie that's only meant more to me as I've aged (and stagnated).

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:43 pm 
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eh, Spielberg has daddy issues - it's present in nearly all of his films. Amplified by his camera angles shot from the perspective of a 5-7 year old.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:48 pm 
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He does, but Monty is right that his attitudes have changed and that he wouldn't make this movie the same way today.

I TOTALLY related to Roy for many years. I completely got it. This idea of chasing wonder, of escaping everything, of being enveloped in this big amazing thing larger than anything you can imagine. Of just running towards something amazing, all else be dammed.

Now, I have the same reservations about Roy you do. My perspective has changed for the same reasons.

But at one time I totally got it.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:29 am 
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I think there is a huge point in saying that Roy was tortured and his whole entire family was absolutely, coldly, a dick to him and very unsupportive.

Seriously, if you were mentally and emotionally anguished and the only fucking thing your wife and kids cared about was you getting up and going in to work - is it really a bad thing for him to bail?

They could have come with him.

There was more than enough opportunity for them to show him some fucking compassion.

I think flipping this is important especially if, instead of aliens, you give Roy something like PTSD.

Is it really fair of a wife to only be concerned about Roy bringing in the paycheck and being the dutiful husband?

You have to remember that it was the wife that drove away from Roy.

So, when Roy says "fuck it" did he really "abandon" his family or had his family already abandoned him. Is it because we are so fucking programmed that the woman is the victim in most domestic situations that we cannot even give Roy the sympathy that his family was also incapable of giving him?

I just don't see Roy abandoning shit more than I see everyone abandoning him just because they don't understand the trauma he is enduring.

Do we need to really understand the pain someone is suffering to help them?

Also, from my memory, the youngest of Roy's children DID want to stay with him. But the wife took her, too.

They could have all gone with him and instead they loaded up and left him.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:20 am 
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You're forgetting crucial scenes where Ronnie (Terri Garr) IS supportive of him. She's the one that goes with him to the middle of nowhere at 5AM to check out the UFOs. She's the one that takes the call where he gets fired for his actions the night before (and doesn't yell at him, she's genuinely on his side). She goes with him to the meet-up, where the military guy reinforces the lunacy of believing in UFOs (and the creepy guy says he saw Bigfoot).

It's that specific scene where she realizes he is, or is going, insane. His behaviour after that (ripping up the neighbour's fence, etc.) warrants more than enough reason for her to take the kids and bail. His behaviour is not normal. At all. He could be an imminent danger to the kids. She did the right thing.

At no point is she, or the kids, ever at fault. The oldest kid loses it when Roy is in the bathtub acting completely insane, and that's just Spielberg lashing out at his dad.

Upon meeting the aliens, Roy should come to his senses, realize the visions were projected by these assholes, thanks them for for getting him fired, and he goes back to his family (with photographic proof - Jillian spent quite a while snapping photos) and apologizes for everything.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:40 am 
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Chris Knight wrote:
It's that specific scene where she realizes he is, or is going, insane. His behaviour after that (ripping up the neighbour's fence, etc.) warrants more than enough reason for her to take the kids and bail. His behaviour is not normal. At all. He could be an imminent danger to the kids. She did the right thing.

This is all spot on. Even when I was someone who related to Roy, I saw that their reaction was on point. He was going off the deep end. He was no longer rational, to the point where they couldn't blindly stand by him. He'd gone too far off his rocker.

I related to what he went off his rocker for and felt a connection to that -- plus there is the subtle implication that the aliens were somehow influencing a handful of people with uncontrollable visions, so you had to sympathize knowing that he was being jerked around by powerful outside forces -- but yeah, his family bailing made perfect sense. The dude was unhinged.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:32 am 
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Shoe wrote:
The dude was unhinged.

Let's examine that.

He said he saw a UFO.

He got fired.

He acted erratically,but never really dangerously, and never was violent towards the children (he never struck them).

He was obsessed with building the Devil's Tower (not yet knowing it).

Ronnie, on the other hand, just decided that he was no longer worth the effort.

If Ronnie had stayed for a little while longer, she would have seen the connection WITH him.

Instead she bailed at the worst time ever.

Potato. Potato. I guess.

I think you guys are being persuaded by your love of Teri Garr and I understand that. She was hot.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:03 am 
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Pender wrote:
If Ronnie had stayed for a little while longer, she would have seen the connection WITH him.

It was pretty obvious that was never going to happen. Even if she had been sitting there watching the Devil's Tower news segment, RIGHT NEXT to his sculpture, she would not have seen the connection. It's akin to Ellie, in the movie Contact, having to prove that she made contact with an alien - without any shred of evidence. A vast majority of the people on Earth would have assumed she was fabricating the idea, or was insane - and she acknowledges that. Something Roy never does.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:09 pm 
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When Roy is shoveling dirt into the house to build Devil's Tower in the living room and Ronnie says she thinks he needs a doctor:
Quote:
Ronnie, if I don't do this, that's when I'm going to need a doctor.

He knows what he needs to do, that he's not dangerous, and that it's okay for his family to help. The younger kids were helping (from the best of my recollection) and he was fine with that. Nothing is an indicator that he would not have a resolution if the family had stuck by his side.

When Roy is asked by Claude what he wants:
Quote:
I just want to know that it's really happening.

I think this is a powerful confirmation that Roy knows he needs to have someone believe him and since his wife didn't (she even mocked him earlier on - see below), he must turn outside his family for that affirmation.

When Roy tries to explain to Ronnie what he saw:
Quote:
Ronnie: Roy, what did it look like?
Roy: It was like an ice cream cone.
Ronnie: What flavor?

and
Quote:
Roy: Well they're not moon burns, goddamnit.

Ronnie's flippant answer in the first quote tells a lot of story here. Ronnie didn't take her husband seriously and when she went out at 5am, she went to try to calm Roy down for her own needs - not in the supportive role of a partner. Her constant nagging at him to "just be normal" is what I remember and her constant disbelief.

Ronnie can't even believe that his burns were from what he knows he saw.

Is that excusable? Absolutely. Most people expect disbelief from others when you speak about things like UFOs, Big Foot, ghosts, and alien abductions.

But, I think most people also believe the person they have married is someone that will have your 'six no matter what else happens. Especially in those circumstances you hope that someone connected so intimately to you will be there for you.

Is Ronnie wrong? No. She is just not strong enough to deal with something not Americana suburbia.

Is Ronnie right? No. She is not right to run away and slam the bathroom door when Roy pointedly says he needs her help and he's not sure what is happening to him. Later on, Roy also tries again via a phone conversation to have Ronnie help him. Both times she refuses him.

Did she bail? Yes. According to Monty (and Slate backs him up with a reference to a 1997 bts interview), Spielberg has said he could not make a movie about a man leaving his family - under any circumstance. Yet, here we have a film where the woman does exactly that: She leaves her husband that has pleaded at least 2-3 times that he needs her support. This is why I call double-standard.

Roy never demanded that his family leave and he was actually encouraging his kids to help him shovel dirt into the house and that he was actually fine: Not dangerous. Not in need of a doctor. Extravagant? Sure. But not dangerous.

Every person must decide for themselves what is right and what is wrong.

Roy's decision may have already been half made, I think, since his home life before the aliens was not really that ideal. He obviously was not doing well at his job. His kids and wife were already ignoring him for the most part and taking advantage of him not really being that present (I recall him trying to read the paper amongst yelling and screaming). Roy seemed lost from the start.

His "becoming lost" at the start of the movie when he's called by his job is actually a perfect example that we are looking at a man who is already adrift in the weeds of Life.

Roy definitely may have felt that his family would be better off without him and he could be right since it was Ronnie that left and never opened a possibility for him to return without him having to pay for it from that day onward.

I don't think his decision was necessarily right but neither do I feel it was really wrong.

It is a pity that filmmakers decide that the cultural norm must be the way things have to be in their thoughts or art they've done previously: It's how we get things like Han shooting first.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:10 pm 
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Pender wrote:
She is not right to run away and slam the bathroom door when Roy pointedly says he needs her help and he's not sure what is happening to him.


I completely empathize with Ronnie in this entire scene.

He locks himself in the bathroom. She breaks the lock, and her first reaction is utter sadness - there's a 5 second close up shot of her face reacting to him in the bath. He says "I don't know what's happening to me", and she immediately goes to him and suggests family therapy (because, at this point, she's convinced he's lost it, and she has no idea how to fix it).

"We all go, we all talk. Maybe it's not your fault."
She's literally questioning her own sanity here.

He then says "hey, my watch - it's waterproof."

It's at that moment she flips out, and realizes he's either in another world, or he just doesn't give a shit (she says "You don't care"). She covers herself up, implicitly stating she doesn't know who this guy is anymore - he's a stranger, not her husband.

He then manhandles her. It's not violent, but she has NO IDEA if it could lead to violence. He literally grabs her and shakes her. She says "You're ruining us!" and locks herself in the bathroom. She is now afraid of this guy.

Seriously, dude, watch it from her perspective. Roy is fucking crazy at this point. She had every right to get the kids away from him (which is what she does, her maternal instincts kick in. She doesn't abandon him, she's just getting her kids to safety. The fact that she takes a phone call from him later signifies she left the door open).

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:23 pm 
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I will add that every parent in America is going to tell you that Roy is wrong.

If you don't say that, you'll be labeled as a horrible parent.

And most men will say Ronnie was trying to be supportive, because most American suburb men are used to letting their wives have their way and not oppose it. It's why we have husband mantras like "Happy Wife, Happy Life"

Possible Alternate Endings

1. Would everyone be so outraged if Roy hooked up with Screechy Single-Lady? Probably.

But it might sit better with those that are biologically triggered about kids and wives. :lol:

After all, Roy divorces Ronnie because Ronnie and him were probably already halfway to Divorceville, and because now Screechy-Single-Lady is not single anymore and Roy can start again with someone that actually fucking believes him when he talks about aliens and alien musical greatest hits.

Maybe Ronnie hooks up with Roy's previous supervisor since they both can relate that Roy was just a horrible employee as well as being a horrible parent.

2. Now, if Roy did go back to Ronnie, it would require (from Chris Knight's perspective which I deem is equal to most males in some sort of familial dynamic) an absolute apology on his behalf, only. Disregarding the fact that Roy tried to hold his family together and despite the fact that Ronnie mocked and discounted the suffering Roy was enduring from day 1. He humored him, but never supported him.

But social norms require that the man apologize to the woman, otherwise he is the cock.

To avoid this, the man hands his cock to the woman and she puts it in her purse.

:lol:

3. Roy, it turns out, is an alien. He was planted in the midst of suburbia America and had his memory wiped to help him fit in and was being recalled to the ship.

Roy has impregnated Ronnie with half-alien weirdos and they too will eventually leave Ronnie to head out into the stars.

Or will they?

Either way, Roy is excused from the whole "bad parent" labeling because the fucker is from Planet Krypton.

4. Roy is allowed to call his family to go with him. Ronnie refuses to believe him and hangs up on him.

Roy is still a jerk in most of Americana Suburbia's opinion, but at least he tried.

:lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:46 pm 
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Chris Knight wrote:
He then says "hey, my watch - it's waterproof."

That's a huge reveal.

Who knew?

Seriously though, I still don't think Roy is a horrible person for leaving his family.

I think we're definitely given more than enough insight that Roy was never really with his family.

He got fired after a last straw. An indicator he wasn't doing well at his job and a very sure method of knowing something ain't right in Royville.

The guy was lost from the moment we first see him.

He literally gets lost and can't even find his way out of being lost while using a map!

The first scene of Ronnie and Roy is of them fighting over movies that the kids can watch. Kids aren't getting attention and their whole life is a mess from the start.

Ronnie wasn't necessarily wrong, but she definitely wasn't supportive.

Roy was definitely amazed by things outside his family instead of his family when he could have been more present for them (e.g., waterproof watch).

I don't think Roy and Ronnie were very much together when we first start watching them.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:52 pm 
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Pender wrote:
The first scene of Ronnie and Roy is of them fighting over movies that the kids can watch. Kids aren't getting attention and their whole life is a mess from the start.

I think you need to watch the movie again. They don't fight during that scene, despite all the chaos. Roy wants to go see Pinocchio, and the kids want Goofy Golf. Ronnie doesn't care, as long as they spend time as a family, and not playing with his train set in the basement. Roy is the one being combative.
When he drags her out at 5AM, she's the one reminding him when they used to go to places like that, just to make out. He just stares at the sky, while she's trying to reconcile the marriage.

It's clear from the start that Roy isn't happy where he is. But he's such an asshole.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:01 pm 
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Chris Knight wrote:
I think you need to watch the movie again.

Oh, I know I do.

I have barely any recall of any of it other than Ronnie was a horrible wife that looked hot.

8-)

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:09 pm 
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I love that all this discussion was sparked by a UFO movie.

Take that, On Golden Pond!

:flip:

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:17 am 
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caryc wrote:
I love that all this discussion was sparked by a UFO movie.

Take that, On Golden Pond!

:flip:

I just love that we discussed something movie-wise for a change. Thanks, Monty.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:47 am 
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Pender wrote:
I just love that we discussed something movie-wise for a change. Thanks, Monty.


Image

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:24 pm 
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:lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:08 pm 
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Chris Knight wrote:
I've never been a fan of the ending of this film, but I adore the first 2 acts immensely


This so much. I've seen the movie 3 times because I love the first 2 acts so much but I hate the ending of this film. His character is just a gigantic asshole abandoning his whole family.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 6:01 am 
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Al Pacino wrote:
His character is just a gigantic asshole abandoning his whole family.

But, according to Chris K, he was an asshole BEFORE he "abandoned" his family.

If that is true (and Chris assures me that it is true), then when he decided to get on the UFO (is it really a UFO now that we know it belongs to aliens?), wasn't that a good thing?

Seriously, who wants an asshole hanging around?

Are you that desperate for a daddy that you would rather have a present, resentful, unemployed, dirt-mucking guy that has a waterproof watch than just letting him GTFO?

Don't be dumb, people. It was a good thing Roy left.

Sometimes it is the best decision a parent can do (if they didn't decide to abort when they should have) is leave the little brats they never wanted. Leave the life that they should have had the courage to leave a long time ago. Sell the house. Sell the car. Sell the kids. And never fucking come back.

8-)

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:51 am 
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The aliens could have kicked Roy in the nuts, and told him to not be such a dick. I'm sure he would have listened.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:55 am 
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Chris Knight wrote:
I'm sure he would have listened.

I only have your word on that.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:41 am 
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Pender wrote:
Chris Knight wrote:
I'm sure he would have listened.

I only have your word on that.

nah, 30 Helens agree...


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