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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:09 pm 
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Shoe wrote:
Al Pacino wrote:
Jesse- a drug dealing meth addict (before Walt) who got Jane back on meth and caused her to OD and die, a bad person

Jesse was your typical young shithead before he got involved with Walt. Not a model citizen by any means, but far from a hardened criminal who was going to leave corpses in his wake. He had a rough time with parents who gave up on him; he was mostly like any other 20something dope, except he slung a small amount of meth on the side. Not a good guy, but hardly evil.

And unlike many of the people around him, he has a conscience. He actually cares about hurting people. He had a line he would not crossed unless forced, and unlike Walt that line wasn't based on selfishness and self-interest.
You are forgetting that Walt actually saved Jesse's life in the beginning. The cousin flipped on the other one (Jesse's partner cook and the distributor), and he was in the middle of pinning it on Jesse when Walt stepped in. So, Jesse was already well on the road to fuckedness.

Everything else I 100% agree with Shoe with, and it how I've interpreted the entire feel from the writers.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 4:05 pm 
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Jesse was on his way to trouble, but he ends up in a far worse place due to crossing paths with Walt, having been built up and given things to care about only to have it all stripped away in the most painful ways possible.

Jesse sums it up in his amazing season 3 hospital speech, one of the show's very best monologues:


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 4:11 pm 
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Putting the blame of everything that has happened on Walt, which you are doing, doesn't seem right. He played a role but he didn't pull the trigger on the kid in the desert and he saved Jesse on multiple occasions. Putting all those deaths on Walt is stretching it. And again, why should I feel sorry for Jesse, he could have walked away countless times, with nothing holding him back. Because of his selfish reasons on getting revenge, he caused the death of that girl last episode. Had he went on his way, she'd still be alive, but he had to get revenge


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 4:13 pm 
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I remember the scene right after the link you posted Shoe, Jesse went right back to Walt because he offered to be 50/50 partners and wanted the money. He had another opportunity to walk and chose not to do so.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:33 pm 
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That scene was hard to watch when it aired. Fucking Walt.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 10:22 pm 
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I enjoyed it, pretty predictable, but it was good. Hate to see this show go though, really gonna miss it.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 10:38 pm 
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Judging by tonight's Facebook posts (and practically the entire internet), it seems I am the last remaining human on Earth to have never watched a single episode of this show. Is it really that good (bear in mind, I haven't been able to stomach straight-forward episodic drama since the early 90s), or is it just a hive mind thing?

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 10:45 pm 
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Chris Knight wrote:
Judging by tonight's Facebook posts (and practically the entire internet), it seems I am the last remaining human on Earth to have never watched a single episode of this show. Is it really that good (bear in mind, I haven't been able to stomach straight-forward episodic drama since the early 90s), or is it just a hive mind thing?


It really is that good. Seasons 1-4 are fantastic and get better each season. By now nobody will speak an ill word about the show because it's so loved but I thought season 5 was slow and not nearly as good as season 4 which is probably the best season of any show I've ever watched.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:22 am 
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Anyone else chopped onions in the last minute of this?

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:01 am 
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No onion chopping, but man it was pretty much pitch perfect, even if a bit predictable (just the ricin). I liked the part with the Dark Matter folks, and especially seeing Badger and Skinny Pete one more time. Chris - I relented for quite a long time, but ultimately the show is well worth your time.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:38 am 
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Christ, even Ried watches it...

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:58 am 
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I wouldn't watch this show again (but that goes for all TV shows, even Mad Men), but I'd LOVE to see someone do a GoodFellas-ian cut of this, and make a 150 to 180 minute movie covering all seasons.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:52 am 
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Chris Knight wrote:
Judging by tonight's Facebook posts (and practically the entire internet), it seems I am the last remaining human on Earth to have never watched a single episode of this show. Is it really that good (bear in mind, I haven't been able to stomach straight-forward episodic drama since the early 90s), or is it just a hive mind thing?
It's that good.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:11 am 
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If anyone stumbles on a great review of the finale, please post it here.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:31 pm 
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Riedenschneider wrote:
If anyone stumbles on a great review of the finale, please post it here.

A bit meandering, but not bad as in it covers everything, but I really don't think this person has come to grips with the whole episode yet.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/maureen-r ... lp00000009

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:57 pm 
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Chris Knight wrote:
Christ, even Ried watches it...


It's one of those shows that starts out good and stays consistent throughout the show's run. None of that "well, season 1 sucks, but stick with it for 15 episodes and it gets pretty great!"


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:57 pm 
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Ericubus wrote:
Riedenschneider wrote:
If anyone stumbles on a great review of the finale, please post it here.

A bit meandering, but not bad as in it covers everything, but I really don't think this person has come to grips with the whole episode yet.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/maureen-r ... lp00000009



And, of course, the AV Club. Very much oozing with fanboy delight, but the subject is worthy of it.

http://www.avclub.com/articles/felina,1 ... :1:Default

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:35 pm 
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I chopped onions during the flashback to Jesse and the box. That moment really hit me.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:38 pm 
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Chris Knight wrote:
Judging by tonight's Facebook posts (and practically the entire internet), it seems I am the last remaining human on Earth to have never watched a single episode of this show. Is it really that good (bear in mind, I haven't been able to stomach straight-forward episodic drama since the early 90s), or is it just a hive mind thing?

It really is that good, but if you don't like big sprawling out drama -- it's a 62-hour movie, really -- it may not be for you.

Thing is, it's a rare show that starts off good, keeps getting better, and never actually gets worse. Every season is stronger than the one before it. It went out on top, while at its peak.

It's superbly acted and written.

And just about everything matters. There is little in the way of throwaway nonsense here. Stuff from the pilot remains relevant right to the final episode.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:16 pm 
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Shoe wrote:
I chopped onions during the flashback to Jesse and the box. That moment really hit me.


Was that a flashback in the sense that it was shown earlier in the series? I just took it for a "I could appreciate my craftmanship and make something neat but instead I'm a caged animal making meth" moment.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:28 pm 
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brian wrote:
Shoe wrote:
I chopped onions during the flashback to Jesse and the box. That moment really hit me.

Was that a flashback in the sense that it was shown earlier in the series? I just took it for a "I could appreciate my craftmanship and make something neat but instead I'm a caged animal making meth" moment.

It's a callback to a story Jesse tells while in rehab:



Essentially, it was the last time Jesse was truly happy with who he was, the last time he was content, the last time he had accomplished something to be proud of.

And he threw it away for drugs.

The box represents a part of Jesse that he had lost. Thinking bad to it while he was locked away being forced to cook meth was just layered with subtext and commentary. It was Jesse yearning to be who he was before all this began; before his decisions led him towards a living hell.

That's why the scene was so poignant. Because you were seeing one of the last moments of peace and contentment Jesse had in his life.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:07 pm 
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I've seen comments on Facebook and other places saying the final episode sucked. Who the fuck are these people? It was everything it needed to be without being everything you'd expect it to be. The only character who really finishes with an unfinished story is Walter Jr. and that's really how it should be. It was a subdued climax, but that was really appropriate because Walt has been subdued by his own machinations. There was no need to tie it up with more shocking, gut-punching sequences because we've all had enough of that. The episode was billed as the goodbye to Breaking Bad and that's exactly what we got. The more I think about it, the more I really like how it ended.

We got a couple things we really needed to happen. Walter admitted to Skyler that he did it for himself. That was huge, a necessary piece of closure for Skyler. And it was genuine. You could always tell when Walt was lying, which was often, but he was genuine about this. He wasn't just saying it to appease her into letting him see Holly. He had come to grips with it and didn't need to keep lying. His fate was sealed and he knew she needed that. Yes, he did it all for himself, but he never did stop loving his family, as awful as he was to them sometimes. I like that.

We also got to see Walt realize that Jesse hadn't gone into a partnership with the Nazis. As confounding as that may have seemed, it would never have been right for it to go down that way. In one last decent action, he saves Jesse from his own attack on that compound, but in staying true to his character, he then asks Jesse to take him out. Even as he admitted to Jesse that he wanted to be shot, Jesse refused, one final fuck you to the man who destroyed everything he cared about.

Also really loved that Jesse got to take out Todd, even as he was chained. Because fuck Todd. That was immensely satisfying. Just what his character needed, along with a joyous escape. Jesse, the fucked up kid, but the one with a heart, finally has something go his way. We can only surmise he goes to make himself a father to Brock.

Really, a fitting end to one fantastic show. I loved it to the end.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:15 pm 
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Red wrote:
Who the fuck are these people?

People who don't understand what a denouement is.

This was a 62-hour story (or whatever it works out to without commercials). The last two episodes provided the necessary emotional closure as well as key story closure. The stunning, jaw-dropping surprising climax took place in the handful of episodes before that.

This was the last few pieces of this giant tapestry being sewn into place, bringing to a close the story's key character arc.

Excellent dramatic structure.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:03 pm 
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Exactly.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:40 pm 
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Aye, thanks for the clip, Shoe. I need to take a few days off and rewatch the series.

The only stupid gripe I have is older Jesse in the flashbacks. Puffy face takes me out of it.

Alas.

I can't help but imagine the writers/creators had that closing song in mind the entire series. God speed Breaking Bad.

Glad it didn't end with Walt in his death bed, surrounded by Hank/Marie/Skyler/Walt Jr. as a cancerous and near death Walt babbles on about being a meth drug lord. The entire cast are staff at the hospital, Jesse the janitor, the doctor is Saul, Huel is the nurse. Gus works in the cafeteria. The whole show after Walt had his first blackout in the first episode was Walt being delirious in the hospital. It was all a dream.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:51 pm 
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Red wrote:
I've seen comments on Facebook and other places saying the final episode sucked. Who the fuck are these people?


Somebody with a different opinion that yours? :roll:


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:00 pm 
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Please don't tell me you're one of those people, are you, Al?

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:05 pm 
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Red wrote:
Please don't tell me you're one of those people, are you, Al?


No, I thought it was good and fit well, I just haven't been the biggest fan of this season. But putting that aside, the last two episodes were great and played out perfectly.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:11 pm 
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The ending was good, but it would have been better if Heisenberg's fedora blew into Walt Jr's apartment, put it on, and winked at the camera.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:12 pm 
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Interesting. I think this season has been fantastic and the last three episodes were the perfect way to conclude the show.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:36 pm 
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All set to check this show out...and Netflix killed my buzz:

Image

Of course, if I call that number, they'll put me on hold for 26 minutes, and it will no longer be 9/30.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:46 pm 
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I have never gotten that error and I watch something on netflix everyday, weird.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:52 pm 
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I fixed it, no thanks to Netflix and Microsoft (I recently cloned my boot drive to a new one, and copy protection software really doesn't like that). Watching Malcom's dad in his underwear right now...

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:30 pm 
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Red wrote:
Walter admitted to Skyler that he did it for himself.

The whole show boils down to that realization. And the answer, “Yeah, but I feel good,” to Skyler's, "You look terrible,” is a great, poetic summation of that.

The wood box idea would've been great, but the flasback dream-light and Jesse's overacting (per usual) spoiled it for me. If they had filmed it straight, no gay lights and Jesse building it matter-of-factly without over-emotionalizing his gazes, I too might've chopped some rings with the ol' Shoegazer.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:05 am 
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Red wrote:
I've seen comments on Facebook and other places saying the final episode sucked. Who the fuck are these people? It was everything it needed to be without being everything you'd expect it to be. The only character who really finishes with an unfinished story is Walter Jr. and that's really how it should be. It was a subdued climax, but that was really appropriate because Walt has been subdued by his own machinations. There was no need to tie it up with more shocking, gut-punching sequences because we've all had enough of that. The episode was billed as the goodbye to Breaking Bad and that's exactly what we got. The more I think about it, the more I really like how it ended.

We got a couple things we really needed to happen. Walter admitted to Skyler that he did it for himself. That was huge, a necessary piece of closure for Skyler. And it was genuine. You could always tell when Walt was lying, which was often, but he was genuine about this. He wasn't just saying it to appease her into letting him see Holly. He had come to grips with it and didn't need to keep lying. His fate was sealed and he knew she needed that. Yes, he did it all for himself, but he never did stop loving his family, as awful as he was to them sometimes. I like that.

We also got to see Walt realize that Jesse hadn't gone into a partnership with the Nazis. As confounding as that may have seemed, it would never have been right for it to go down that way. In one last decent action, he saves Jesse from his own attack on that compound, but in staying true to his character, he then asks Jesse to take him out. Even as he admitted to Jesse that he wanted to be shot, Jesse refused, one final fuck you to the man who destroyed everything he cared about.

Also really loved that Jesse got to take out Todd, even as he was chained. Because fuck Todd. That was immensely satisfying. Just what his character needed, along with a joyous escape. Jesse, the fucked up kid, but the one with a heart, finally has something go his way. We can only surmise he goes to make himself a father to Brock.

Really, a fitting end to one fantastic show. I loved it to the end.


This is pretty much exactly how I feel. I do hope that someone told Huel he could go home.

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