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PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:31 am 
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I know I'm really the only one who cares about these, but whatevs. Here's a combined thread for all of them.

Watched The Defenders yesterday and last night.

It was damn awesome.

Seeing all the characters PLUS all the most important supporting cast members together was awesome.

The show is basically a direct sequel to Daredevil season 2 and Iron Fist. Those are the main threads it follows, with minor nods to Luke Cage and Jessica Jones.

Speaking of Jessica Jones, she steals every scene she's in. Like, every. Single. Scene. She's terrific.

Show as great. Just eight tight episodes. The first episode is very slow, as it's just there to show you whatever everyone is up to since their series ended. Episode 2 puts the pieces in place. Then from 3 forward it's ON. All killer, no filler.

If you liked any of the previous shows, this is worth watching (though the Luke Cage influence is slimmest of all, so if that one was your favorite ...)

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:48 am 
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Luke Cage and Jessica Jones were my favorites, but I've enjoyed all of them.

You're not the only one who cares, Shoe.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:42 pm 
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 7:48 am 
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That's what I like to hear.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:05 am 
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Watched the first two episodes last night. They were slow, but that's not so bad with a show like this, where you can binge-watch it instead of having to wait a week.

Jessica Jones is the most fun. Daredevil is just too guilt-ridden.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:56 pm 
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I'm five episodes in and I agree (mostly) with Shoe's assessment. It's pretty damn fun all around. I really like the back and forth between Luke Cage and Iron Fist. They got that right and I love that they're pointing out Danny Rand's impulsiveness and idiocy as a liability. Looking forward to seeing how this wraps up but already I wish it were a longer arc.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:17 pm 
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Same here. Five episodes. That fifth was a lot of jockeying around, getting side characters to safety, but I agree with the Cage/Iron Fist pairing, and the Jones/Daredevil pairing as well. Either way, you've sort of got a straight man and another character taking the piss out of the first.

Hoping the plot doesn't get muddled in the home stretch, as has sometimes happened with these series.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:28 am 
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Episode 6 was great in my opinion. Especially the last 10 - 15 minutes.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:22 pm 
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Will report back on it when seen.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:21 pm 
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Well that was a twist.

Remains to be seen if they committed the same sin as Luke Cage, where they traded down in villains. Actually, I sort of hope this replacement isn't entirely a villain. But we'll see.

I sort of think they need more fight scenes like the one in the office building in episode 3 or 4. Hopefully in one of the remaining two episodes.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:11 pm 
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Seems that the writers figured out Iron Fist is a well-meaning idiot who fucks up at most opportunities. Which he sort of was in his own series, but the writers the didn't seem to know it.

Too bad these writers can't make up their minds how strong and invulnerable Cage and Jones are. Characterization is pretty consistent, but their abilities are wildly inconsistent.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:34 am 
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I'm with you on the Luke/Jessica thing.

Spoiler: show
How it is that he can take a hit from a truck at full speed and show up an hour later with no problems just doesn't match up with him being knocked out of a fight with a few consistent blows from a ninja or Elektra. Still, I was totally willing to forgive it when he opened the back of that truck and had the Hand member tied up in the back. That was a really fun moment.


I watched episode 7 last night. They're hurtling toward the conclusion at a pace that made me want to watch 8 right away but I needed to get some sleep. I'll wrap it up tonight.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:54 pm 
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Watched through 7. Started 8, but fell asleep.

Up through there, there's nothing quite as good as the fight in the skyscraper, but they've got an episode left to rectify that.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:25 am 
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Overall, I was very satisfied with this one. I agree about the lack of fights overall and I have to say that the fight in episode 7 wasn't shot nearly as well as it could have been. I'd venture to say almost every fight in the first two seasons of Daredevil was framed and choreographed better overall, but still it was fun to watch.

I thought the finale was right on tone also but had one quibble.

Spoiler: show
I could have done without the reveal at the end that Matt survived. It would have been better IMHO if Marvel had the balls to end it at the scene just before that.


Otherwise, I'm pretty satisfied and I'm really looking forward to Jessica Jones' and Luke Cage's second seasons. Pretty excited about The Punisher series too.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:41 am 
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Your quibble re: the ending is valid, however, since DD season 3 has already been officially announced it would have been a transparent bit of misdirection.

Plus -- and for me this is HUGE -- that final scene is lifted from and teasing the greatest Daredevil story of all time, and one of the best stories Marvel has ever done, period. So I was jazzed to see it. If they do a version of that storyline for season 3 (and it looks like they will), I will be toked out of my mind.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 3:53 pm 
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Not sure which storyline it's teasing as I only read a few of the Daredevil storylines. Can you give me the name of the arc so I can look it up?

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 5:37 pm 
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It's "Born Again," I'd assume.

Liked it. That fight early in the series felt like giddy fun, with the heroes working together (on very brief acquaintance) and wisecracking. The ending fight was underwhelming not only because it was poorly lit and seemed less well choreographed, but also because it was much more serious. That said, most of these series have been pretty self-serious. It's not like it didn't fit. Come to think of it, the Netflix Marvel is nearer to big-screen DC than it is to big-screen Marvel, in tone at least.

Anybody who thought Iron Fist was a horrible misstep is probably back on board. I thought its status as a trainwreck was pretty exaggerated, but it was the worst of the Marvel shows, and this is a step up. I'm wondering what sorts of threads they'll lay through the next few solo series to justify another team-up. Hopefully they don't just resurrect the Hand with a "You thought those were the leaders, but here are the real leaders" sort of bullshit explanation.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:06 pm 
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caryc wrote:
Not sure which storyline it's teasing as I only read a few of the Daredevil storylines. Can you give me the name of the arc so I can look it up?

"Born Again," written by Frank Miller with art by David Mazzucchelli. If you haven't read it, I can't recommend it enough. It's terrific. So good it even manages to not get spiked by the subpar ending (which is actually Easter Egged -- or set up! -- in the Netflix Jessica Jones series). They've planted seeds for it in DD season 2, Jessica Jones, and now here.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:09 am 
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Picked up the "Born Again" TPB. I never read it.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:03 am 
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Awesome. I look forward to your thoughts.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:12 pm 
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Enjoyed The Defenders a lot. All subsequent Marvel Netflix shows should be kept to the same eight-episode limit.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:14 am 
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I agree. Though I liked all the series, most of them suffered from some filler and meandering in their later halves. Tighter and punchier is the way to go.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:52 am 
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Shoe wrote:
I agree. Though I liked all the series, most of them suffered from some filler and meandering in their later halves. Tighter and punchier is the way to go.


Having recently finished the latest seasons of The Flash, Arrow and Legends Of Tomorrow on Netflix (all of which took me months to slog through), it was bracing to be able to watch something that could be consumed in three days. I like all of those shows, but there's just so much needless blather and a refusal to get to the point that they're kind of exhausting, even when marathoning multiple episodes at a time.

That's also part of the season why Stranger Things was so great...tight, compact and didn't overstay its welcome. The 22-episode season model that the big networks continue to cling to seems so ridiculously outdated in this day and age. Who has the patience for storylines that are dragged out that goddamn long anymore? I remember when Lost downsized to 14-16 episode seasons starting with season four, and how much more streamlined and coherent the storytelling became in those last three seasons as a result. No more bullshit filler episodes like the who-cares origin of Jack's tattoos or Charlie going nuts and trying to baptize Claire's baby...every episode starting in season four actually propelled the story forward in a meaningful way instead of padding out the obligatory 22-episode ABC contract.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:33 am 
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Monterey Jack wrote:
The 22-episode season model that the big networks continue to cling to seems so ridiculously outdated in this day and age.

Yes, yes, yes, and yes.

It's one of the reasons why this past season's Agents of SHIELD was by far the best yet and for the first time was actually quality television. The writing was stronger and the characters now have a lot of history to draw from, sure, but it also helped LOADS that the season was broken into three distinct, 8-episode storylines.
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I remember when Lost downsized to 14-16 episode seasons starting with season four, and how much more streamlined and coherent the storytelling became in those last three seasons as a result.

Yep, I agree wholeheartedly. I'm of the mind that season 4 is the series' best, and 5 was pretty strong as well. That has a lot to do with them actually having a finish line in sight, and it has just as much to do with being forced to have a more compact season.

I can't imagine if a show like, say, Breaking Bad had to fill out 22-episode seasons rather than the shorter seasons AMC goes with.

If networks want to push out 20-something episodes a year, go for it, but I'd prefer them to break them up into smaller chunks and do several "mini seasons" over the course of the year, like 8 episodes in January, 8 in June, 8 in September. Or something like that. I'm sure there is a bunch of logistical stuff to factor in, but you get my drift.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:47 am 
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Shoe wrote:
If networks want to push out 20-something episodes a year, go for it, but I'd prefer them to break them up into smaller chunks and do several "mini seasons" over the course of the year, like 8 episodes in January, 8 in June, 8 in September. Or something like that. I'm sure there is a bunch of logistical stuff to factor in, but you get my drift.


We already see this with a lot of cable shows introducing a "mid-season finale"...and those are for shows that top out around 15-16 episodes. I mean, Arrow is a good show and all, but there have already been, what, 115 episodes already? With no distinct end point in sight? That's what killed The X-Files back in the day...no real coherent vision of where it was all going, just an initially-engrossing "Mythology" that grew increasingly convoluted and disappointing as the show faded from its seasons 3-5 peak to the dregs of seasons eight and nine (to say nothing of the lousy second movie and the recent TV revival). That's why I think Fringe was like the superior "second-draft" version of what The X-Files attempted to do...even the one-off "monster of the week" episodes of Fringe were better integrated into the whole than XF, and it knew enough to stop with less than half of the total amount of episodes produced for that earlier series. I was a huge X-Files fan during the show's peak period of roughly 1994-98 (the first movie being a fanboy highlight), but the fact that it petered out so anemically kind of sours everything good it did in those early years. And The Walking Dead has grown repetitive and tiresome in the same way...same shit, year after year, with no real idea of where it will all end.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:15 pm 
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FX is currently the king of short seasons. I'm totally hooked on Fargo, Legion, and Snowfall. Not a fan, but my wife loves AHS, which also sticks to a limited amount of episodes per season. Even better, each episode varies in length, not being restricted to wrapping up shit in 45 minutes.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:26 pm 
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Chris Knight wrote:
Not a fan,Even better, each episode varies in length, not being restricted to wrapping up shit in 45 minutes.


Not to drag this too far off topic, but if by AHS you mean American Horror Story, my wife loves it also and I can't fucking stand it. Understand that I am a HUGE horror fan, but the mash-up "let's throw in everything having to do with this particular season's topic" style of storytelling absolutely infuriates me. We watched the first two seasons together because she insisted. As much as a show about carnival freaks appeals to every fiber of my being, I refuse to watch another season.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:02 pm 
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Everything about that show is just painful to watch.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:47 pm 
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I made it through half of the first season of American Horror Story, and when the Down's Syndrome girl got run over in the street, I had had my fill. What a piece of shit.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:12 am 
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We only watched the Freak Show season of AHS (I couldn't pass up that season, cary), which was at times thrilling, and at points dull to the point of dishwater. It certainly didn't want to make me want to watch any of the other seasons.

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