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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:41 am 
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We need a thread devoted to this, because when it comes to obnoxiousness and entitlement, the video game community is even worse than the indie rock community and comic book community.

So here is the thread.

...

I'll begin with GTA: Online.

So GTA: Online is GTA, but online. You do missions, earn cash, buy better shit, rinse, repeat, all while raising hell in a virtual world.

Rockstar gives people the option of using real money to buy some in-game money. It's far from required (I don't actually know anyone who has done it) and is very unobtrusive. It's just an option. Doesn't actually give you a leg up on anyone, doesn't make you a better play or give you better skills, it just lets you, say, buy a sports car NOW rather than later if you want.

This, it seems, is a point of outrage.

Rockstar, if the message boards are to be believed, have betrayed their fans by doing this. It is (and I quote) "immoral" that they have done this. This spells the end of the GTA series. In fact, more than a few people say, Rockstar has clearly crippled their online game on purpose in order to urge people into paying real money for stuff. They are purposely, deliberately breaking features and making the game less fun in order to push people into spending money.

If you point out that these microtransactions are nothing more than an option, and an option that is easy to ignore, you are shouted down by a dozen people.

I don't always understand my fellow gamer.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:57 am 
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This is the reddithive (et al) reacting to more and more pay-to-play games, like the recently released Dungeon Keeper (which is free to download, but impossible to play without spending a significant amount of money on). The amount of "down with pay-to-play" videos on YouTube has skyrocketed in the last week, which generates internet arguing on reddit, which spills over to facebook, etc.

At this point, it becomes hard to explain the difference between games like GTA Online and DOTA (where micro-transactions don't make you better than other players), and the obvious Zynga-style games that go after people with gambling addictions.

Since GTA Online gets more press than a shitty little mobile game, it gets the brunt of the online hearsay reaction. A shame, since every GTA V video I've watched is hilarious, and the game seems well worth spending money on (well, not until the fuckers get around to releasing the game for the PC, that is).

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:02 am 
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Chris Knight wrote:
like the recently released Dungeon Keeper (which is free to download, but impossible to play without spending a significant amount of money on).

Yes, see, THIS is a legitimate gripe. There are a lot of supposedly "free" games out there, usually on social media sites or mobile, that are near useless unless you spend money on them. They're kind of annoying, and when that model is attached to a franchise people love like Dungeon Keeper, it's pretty obnoxious.

GTA Online sure as hell isn't one of them. And like you said, the game deserves some money, anyway.

I first encountered this griping on the official Rockstar forums, not on Reddit. When Rockstar first announced this option on their blog, the comments BLEW UP with outrage. Instant anger.

Figured I'd wait and see how it was implemented. Honestly, I've barely noticed it, and the online game plays exactly as I expected without spending one red cent on it (aside from the initial purchase).

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:07 am 
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Is it possible most people hanging out in the RS forums are just kids without an expendable income? They got the game for Xmas, and now if they don't have the same sports car as their classmate, they'll be harassed in school?

I don't know, I'm just trying to understand the reasoning here. It's like when Bethesda announced the horse armour DLC for Oblivion (which I think was the first time I'd ever heard of DLC), and people went apeshit.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:12 am 
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I generally assume there is some degree of youth involved in those complaints, though I can't be sure. The official RS forums, yeah, almost for sure those are all much younger people. That sense of entitlement, "Why aren't you giving me what I want and giving it to me for nothing?" seems to be more prominent among younger players.

I remember that horse armor blowup. The pricing was ridiculous, to be sure, but it was easy enough to just say "no thanks" and move on. Plus, I liked the idea behind official mods being released at a small cost. Still do. Nothing wrong with the model, as long as the pricing is fair (and Bethesda adjusted very quickly after that, offering some decent little add-ons for just a few bucks each).

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:29 am 
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Video gamers are the fucking worst.

Anita Sarkeesian made a series of dry, academic videos discussing the various gender stereotypes and cliches in video games. The only appropriate response to which was, of course, death and rape threats and a massive online campaign of character assassination (including a vile flash game where you beat her face to a bloody pulp). Reasonable, considering that she had the temerity to suggest that the medium is lacking in strong female protagonists.

So pervasive is their awfulness that I don't even visit video game websites anymore and I sure as hell don't read the comments section of the few gaming related videos I do bother to watch. Even though I mostly play single player or local co-op games, they've still managed to poison the well for me.

Seriously, fuck video gamers.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:45 am 
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There's a thread on SA dedicated to just horrible quotes from video game threads, and I go look at it to feel sad sometimes.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:46 am 
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If it's not behind their pay wall, please link. Sometimes I like to look at the worst parts of humanity. Makes me feel better about myself.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:49 am 
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:49 am 
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http://forums.somethingawful.com/showth ... genumber=1

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:57 am 
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Also,
Cru wrote:
Anita Sarkeesian

Holy shit did this situation ever piss me off. I don't often get genuinely mad about the bullshit in the video game community -- it's kind of funny, kind of sad, kind of entertaining, but not necessarily enraging -- but this one made me want to punch walls.

I felt so bad for her. Her series of commentaries were thoughtful, well presented, and loaded with evidence, data and examples to back her views. It was the kind of smart, thoughtful stuff we need to see more of.

The response was the equivilant of a load of 13-year-olds teabagging a corpse in Call of Duty.

And they were so proud of themselves, too.

The other thing like this was that GTA V review by a female reviewer who pointed out -- correctly -- that female characters in the game aren't treated well. The review was largely glowing, was scored high, and gave the game loads of praise, but it also mentioned the game had an "unnecessary strain of misogynistic nastiness running through it."

Fair statement.

The reviewed was promotly stalked all over the web and given stunningly vile treatment.

Review here: http://www.gamespot.com/reviews/grand-t ... 0-6414475/

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:04 pm 
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Game reviewer is a transexual. She does her first video review for Gamespot. Kotaku calls out people that slammed her for being trans. Now read the comments responding to Kotaku's piece and weep:

http://kotaku.com/5803703/welcome-carol ... -just-fine

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:00 pm 
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Shoe wrote:
Also,
Cru wrote:
Anita Sarkeesian

Holy shit did this situation ever piss me off. I don't often get genuinely mad about the bullshit in the video game community -- it's kind of funny, kind of sad, kind of entertaining, but not necessarily enraging -- but this one made me want to punch walls.

I felt so bad for her. Her series of commentaries were thoughtful, well presented, and loaded with evidence, data and examples to back her views. It was the kind of smart, thoughtful stuff we need to see more of.

The response was the equivilant of a load of 13-year-olds teabagging a corpse in Call of Duty.

And they were so proud of themselves, too.

The other thing like this was that GTA V review by a female reviewer who pointed out -- correctly -- that female characters in the game aren't treated well. The review was largely glowing, was scored high, and gave the game loads of praise, but it also mentioned the game had an "unnecessary strain of misogynistic nastiness running through it."

Fair statement.

The reviewed was promotly stalked all over the web and given stunningly vile treatment.

Review here: http://www.gamespot.com/reviews/grand-t ... 0-6414475/


I didn't even know about this because like you said, video game players are usually terrible so I avoid most sites with the exception of reading some reviews and big news about certain games. News like what to expect in GTA5 online such as their most hyped feature they talked about for a year...heists. Something that's still NOT in the game. I don't give a single fuck about their micro-transactions because you don't need it to have fun, but Rockstar dropped the ball hard on GTA Online. I'm sure by the time it comes to PC all the features will be added and fixed so Chris Knight will get to enjoy it all day 1.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:22 pm 
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I'm with you there. Complaining about heists is a legitimate complaint. Here we are how many months later and one of the most hyped features of the game is still a no-show? Major dropped ball. No entitlement in expecting to get the game they were selling.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:16 pm 
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The nonstop arguing video gamers use saying that their system of choice is better and wanting companies to fail because they don't like the way the newest game played or for another stupid reason...I just try and avoid it because it makes all gamers look terrible.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 8:58 pm 
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Quote:
I like sexism.

I like homophobia.

I like stereotypes.

They keep us real. Like it or not, they are this world and have been since the dawn of time. It is in our genes. We have male parts and female parts. We reproduce. We have different hormones. We have different customs. We have different cultures. This is how it has been since the dawn of time. It is in our DNA, it is part of our cellular processes. It blankets all life on this Earth.

No amount of political pandering will erase this from existence. You can’t make it go away. You can’t sanitize it from existence. It will be as has been. If you don’t like it, find a space ship and leave the planet.

If you think it can go away, you are deluded. If you think you can make everyone sterile, plain and identical… well you are insane.

So I’ll continue to be sexist when I want. I’ll value people who choose to reproduce properly if I see fit. And if I want to use stereotypes, I will. That’s my right as an individual. Someone I want us all to be. Ourselves. Individuals and unique. Every one of us.

And we might not like each other, either. But good news! We don’t have to! Natural selection will sort us all out, anyways.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 11:38 am 
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Sounds about right.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 5:07 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:01 am 
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Actual shirt at Wondercon this weekend:

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:45 am 
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:(

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 11:37 am 
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Worst. Ever.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 8:22 am 
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Greg Rucka on that Wondercon shirt:

http://ruckawriter.tumblr.com/post/8352 ... r-pressure

So, I saw that bullshit piece of shit “joke” t-shirt that managed to insult not only women, not only those of us who call coffee the Black Bean of Life, not only men (via the fact that it was created by an individual with a penis who thinks said piteous appendage allows him the right to tar the rest of us with the same brush), not only fandom, not only, dammit, people with an ounce of decency and who understand that a sense of humor is viable only when it enlightens, entertains, and instructs, rather than demeans and diminishes, and yes, I’ve been thinking about this pretty much all day, why do you ask?

And that sets me on a burn, anyway, but I’m running hot because, you see, I am the father of a daughter, and she is my light, and she shines, and I want for her every-fucking-thing she desires, and I want those things for her earned, not given; I want for her the reward of effort. I want for her inclusion. I want for her validation. I want for her a world that recognizes her worth as a human being.

My daughter, she’s a lot like her mother and me. Which makes sense, but where our son seems to have inherited his mother’s even keel and gentle soul, my daughter got the short straw, and drew my emotional volatility. She’s smart, maybe too smart, and she runs hot like I do, and she feels deeply, and passionately, and she sees more than maybe a lot of kids her age see. And she’s a geek (hell, she’s practically a hipster-geek, as she informed me she’d been reading Divergent before anyone even knew about the movie, let alone the book), she reads comics, she dresses up as Captain Marvel and Black Widow and she swings a lightsaber and uses her Nerf guns to shoot vampires just the way Buffy taught her.

So she doesn’t fit in. She’s in a school that’s a pretty good school, to be honest, but the ratio of boys to girls in her class has been 2:1 for the last five years. That takes a toll. And some of those boys? They’re not that far from Neanderthal in their thinking about gender (and what is going on at home with those boys I am forced to wonder…). And the girls in her class, they’ve pretty much made her odd-girl-out for five years now, because that’s the game they’re playing.

Portland Public Schools has a lottery system to get into its magnet programs. For two years, our daughter has been dreaming of attending one specific middle school, one that’s art focused. She’s been in a science-and-math magnet program, and she’s done very well there, mind, but the social aspect… it’s been grinding her down. She was looking to escape. She was looking to go to a place where, she imagined, she could be who she is and not suffer for it.

Such is the dream of all of us geeks and nerds and whatever we’re calling ourselves today. Such is the call of our fandoms, and why we answer.

So, yeah, lottery system. Random. Not merit based. Not application based. Just jump through a couple of hoops to apply, check a couple of boxes, and hope your number comes up.

Her number did not come up.

And it wrecked her. It devastated her. One of those situations, those moments that, as a parent, there’s not a damn fuck thing you can do to make it better. All you can do is hold on and tell them that yes, they were right all along, life is not fair. All you can do is tell them that sometimes you get the bad bounce. All you can do is tell them you love them, that you believe in them, that you see their glow, and that one day, others will, too, honest to God.

Needless to say, it did not really help. Because, ten years old, and oh do we forget how damn hard ten years old was for some of us, at least.

She’s trying so hard to find who she is, to find a place to be who she wants to become.

And some asshole thinks selling a shirt that, essentially, says, GURLS STAY OUT is funny. He’s talking to my wife. He’s talking to my daughter. He’s talking to my friends. He’s talking to my fans. He’s talking to some of the best writers in the industry, some of the most gifted artists, some of the most talented creators in the arts.

GURLS STAY OUT. Heh heh heh.

Fucking mouthbreather.

Fake geek girl? This is still a thing? Rape threats because a woman has the temerity to point out flaws in a grievously flawed cover? Bullshit arguments about inclusiveness being overdone, overrated, that we don’t need it?

So, yeah, this is directed at the guys, and you know who you are. Odds are you’re the ones who’d never read this in the first place, but that’s not going to stop me. You, yes, you. Come here. Listen.

What in the name of everlovingfuck is the matter with you? Are you simply stupid? Are you just ignorant? Are you broken? Newsflash: you are owed NOTHING. Not a thing. Not a goddamn thing. This fandom, that fandom, guess what? It doesn’t belong to you.

You don’t own it. You partake in it. It’s called community.

You want something to be your thing, make a club, build a tree-fort, and do us a favor. Don’t come down.

Next time you think of opening your damn mouth to talk about “the women” or “their agenda” or fake geek anything, if nothing else, know this: I am listening, and I am taking names, because you are, in part, talking about my daughter.

You are talking about my friends.

You are talking about my colleagues.

You are talking about those people I am fortunate enough to count as fans of my work.

And you do not get to talk about them that way.

Especially my daughter.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 8:23 am 
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There was one little bit in his rant that I was going to pick at because I quite disagreed with it, but I won't because doing so would miss the damn point.

And his point was spot on.

That shirt kind of pissed me off when I saw it. It's a good representation of the sorry ass turds who populate video game fandom.

Nerds love to consider themselves intellectually superior to those dumb jocks and the ignorant plebes who aren't whip-smart intellects like we think we are, and nerds love to lament being seen as outcasts and all the like...

But some nerds can be the same sort of misogynistic, closed-minded, elitist shitty assholes as the jocks and preps and popular people they rant against.

The misogynistic stuff is what gets me most. In nerd fandom, you hear again and again laments about being friendzoned and why girls dig the jocks and how hard it is to date and about social anxiety and why am I alone? and all that.

The way these intellectual giants choose to cope with that? By being raging elitist sexist assholes.

Fuck that whole mindset.

Obviously I am talking about a minority of fandom. We've got none of that here, for instance (other than our propensity to oogle lovely ladies).

But it runs rampant enough so that you can't ignore it, yet too often fandom DOES ignore it, and when you call fandom out on it they get super defensive about it. You see it time and again in both comic and video game fandom. Point out misogyny and a loud, vocal and disturbingly large minority will insist that it doesn't exist.

I repeat, fuck that whole mindset.

The best thing ever to happen to nerd fandom is that girls started to embrace it, too. Don't be bitter just because you're a socially retarded mutant. Just shut up and crawl back into your basement, because obviously that's where this loud minority wishes geek fandom still was: locked away in the basement, outcast and ugly.

Fuck that whole mindset.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 8:41 am 
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Shit like isn't going to stop any girl. Seriously, my niece is more hardcore of a gamer than I'll ever pretend to be. She get's online and just fucking destroys everybody that crosses her path. It's actually awe-inspiring to watch. What hilarious is that she keeps quiet until she's laid waste to everyone and then she speaks.

And it's fucking hysterical listening to all these misogynistic 13 year-old homophobes freak-out when they learn that they just got their asses handed to them by a GIRL.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:08 am 
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Downhuman wrote:
...And it's fucking hysterical listening to all these misogynistic 13 year-old homophobes freak-out when they learn that they just got their asses handed to them by a GIRL.
Let me guess, 99.9% of them call cheating.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:44 am 
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Ericubus wrote:
Downhuman wrote:
...And it's fucking hysterical listening to all these misogynistic 13 year-old homophobes freak-out when they learn that they just got their asses handed to them by a GIRL.
Let me guess, 99.9% of them call cheating.


Pretty much.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:49 pm 
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Got a chuckle at the shirt, actually.

Not that I want to see anybody excluded, or that I agree with misogyny (even when it's misogyny masking insecurity), but I do think it's being taken a bit too seriously there.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:01 pm 
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If it was just one shirt, I'd agree.

The shirt, however, does not exist in a vacuum. It's not just one edgy joke that people took too seriously. It is indicative of a much larger undercurrent in geek culture. It's representative of a mindset that has stirred up debate on more than a few occasions over the last few years, and in this case acted as a trigger for people to continue the ongoing discussion about misogyny in nerd circles.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:32 pm 
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I think it can be part of a mindset AND be taken too seriously. Whether it's offensive or not depends an awful lot on how people view it, and something as ridiculous as that seems like it's clearly meant to be ironic.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 4:29 pm 
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I have to agree with Eric. If my daughter saw this, she'd fucking wear it (and she has put up with a ton of misogyny - especially from guys who can't believe she can play a musical instrument, let alone dominate them with one). That shirt is satire. #CancelColbert and all that.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 4:46 pm 
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Eric wrote:
and something as ridiculous as that seems like it's clearly meant to be ironic.

The problem is that in the general world of gaming, it isn't ridiculous and it's not over the top. It's just more of the same. If it's satire, it's a pretty poor attempt at satire.

Shoe wrote:
The misogynistic stuff is what gets me most. In nerd fandom, you hear again and again laments about being friendzoned and why girls dig the jocks and how hard it is to date and about social anxiety and why am I alone? and all that.

Good rule of thumb: any guy who uses the words "Friendzone" or "Misandry" unironically is not worth knowing.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 4:53 pm 
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I will say that my daughter refused to date anyone with an xbox 360, simply because of xbox live's hivemind.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:25 pm 
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JFelix wrote:
Eric wrote:
and something as ridiculous as that seems like it's clearly meant to be ironic.

The problem is that in the general world of gaming, it isn't ridiculous and it's not over the top. It's just more of the same. If it's satire, it's a pretty poor attempt at satire.


This was at some sort of convention, right? I mean, I agree with you completely about the legions of 12-year-olds yelling "FAGGOT!" in COD multiplayer, but I'd think (never having been to that sort of thing) that the crowd at an event you had to drive to and pay to enter would skew older and grasp irony.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:48 pm 
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Eric wrote:
but I'd think (never having been to that sort of thing) that the crowd at an event you had to drive to and pay to enter would skew older and grasp irony.

This is the same kind of group that chanted for Penny Arcade to bring the DICKWOLVES shirts back. They might skew older, but the scene on a whole is really, really gross.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:58 pm 
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JFelix wrote:
This is the same kind of group that chanted for Penny Arcade to bring the DICKWOLVES shirts back.


I have absolutely no idea what that means.


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