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PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 6:37 am 
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That story made me laugh.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 8:10 am 
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Did you watch Anita Sarkeesian on The Colbert Report last night?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 8:16 am 
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Oh boy. No matter what she said (I haven't watched it), I'm sure Twitter, Reddit and the blogs are already fired up and frothing at the mouth. A dozen shitty response videos are being created even as I type thing. GUARANTEED.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 8:21 am 
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Of course...

She did very well, it is a huge deal being interviewed by a 'character' and not being able to play one yourself, completely, especially on a topic you personally take very seriously.

Her main point was that the 'Gamer Gate' thing is about male members of the gaming community harassing women. I think she was trying to link this behavior to the objectification of women in games, but I'm not completely sure.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:06 am 
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#Gamersgate adherents often try to claim the "movement" is about demanding journalistic integrity, but even a casual observer can see what a farce that claim is.

For every one person who treats it that way -- and there are some of them out there -- there are a dozen whose sole focus is frothing at the mouth about the evil feminists trying to take away their games. The gender issue is the common tie that binds, again and again. Even suggest that maybe a develop might entertain the idea of adding more character choices (sex, gender, race, etc.) and it's an outrage!!

A right wing group or two has seized upon this and has been pushing a lot of anti-feminism material at the community in the guise of it being part of Gamers Gate. The Games Gate kids eat it up. They are objectively, clearly, undeniably being used for political purposes, but most don't care because despite their protestations to the contrary, the movement is dominated by frustrated dudes who are mad because someone told them objectifying women isn't cool.

Oh, and the really fun thing is that the movement is infected with conspiracy theorists, too. No kidding, swear to god, when some of their ranks do something shitty like harass someone or dox them, they claim "false flag! The feminists did this to make us look bad." No lie.

The whole thing is obnoxious and sad.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:36 am 
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I have been somewhat following it, through the thread here, and reading Sarkeesian's articles and other articles about her articles and the whole phenomenon.

Personally, I am somewhat with and against both sides.

I have no problem with objectification (male and or female or hermaphrodite (Intersexed for the PC amongst us)) , I actually think it's a healthy thing. Fantasy role playing can be good too, as anything in moderation, and almost anything can be personally overdone to the point of no longer being healthy.

But, death threats and rape threats and character assassination are always over the top and most should be dealt with as criminal behavior.

I think both sides are taking things to much to the extreme and any healthy discussion is simply not happening within the main people and groups involved.

Telling people that their natural inclinations are wrong and evil and corrupt is not going to win you any converts and is usually incorrect at its core anyway. It really is OK that people like seeing scantily clad characters doing overtly sexualized things, we are programmed to enjoy that and it is part of our reproductive nature to. Every major study ever done on that type of subject has determined that it is not detrimental to the individual and does not lead to violence or unhealthy real life behavior.

The current behavior of some of the people involved in verbally attacking and threatening these women has far more to do with the internet culture and third party interaction it provides. Not the reasoning behind doing it, but the fact that they have gone so far in their behavior to do it.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:16 am 
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Considering we are barely out of the cave and clubbing women to rape their unconscious bodies or fuck them from behind while they try to get a drink from the river, I very much doubt that the male society as a whole is ready to let go of oggling tits, wanting whores, or fantasizing about raunchy women willingly being nasty for our pleasure (specifically reference the porn industry, ad industry, and nearly every other industry out there).

It is absurd to think that men will be overwhelmingly supportive of losing their desire for dominant sex.

Now, that said, I agree with some of the other side with regard to the actual, real life, threats and hatred should be taken seriously.

I may not enjoy the company of many of the hardcore feminists that would happily enjoy lopping my penis off rather than actually speaking to me, but I also do not wish them harm (even if they would hate me for watching porn or whatever). I feel their safety and right to speak should be protected, just as the game creators have a right to make whatever they feel is best.

I do get the feeling that this woman, Anita Sarkeesian, is carrying the same banner as other unshaved, hairy, rock "deodorant" using, no-bra-wearing feminists of the past (e.g., Gloria Steinem) - and she might have huge expectations as to her own success, but again, I doubt it will impact anymore than Steinem's work impacted today.

The difference is, I may not agree, but I definitely don't feel any urge to hurt this woman based on her opinions.

I certainly hope it does not go down the same path as censorship.

I certainly also hope the idiots that are closer to the cave entrance do not hurt anyone seriously - and if they do, I would want them held fully accountable.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 11:39 am 
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Pender wrote:
It is absurd to think that men will be overwhelmingly supportive of losing their desire for dominant sex.

I don't think anyone is asking for this, though. I think there is just a desire to have the gaming community be more inclusive. Not necessarily replacing the T&A and the like, but also having better written female characters who exist as more than tits or someone to be rescued in addition to the usual stuff. A desire to see more games that reflect a broader array of people, not just the usual adolescent boy power fantasies. I don't see how anyone could reasonably think that's a bad thing.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 12:19 pm 
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Shoe wrote:
...I don't see how anyone could reasonably think that's a bad thing.
DEVELOPMENT TIME!

It will take away all sorts of development time and resources on chick stuff, DAMN FEMINAZIS!

That is the more reasoned argument. In reality the amount given will be minimal compared to the overall picture.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 1:20 pm 
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I think the best thing about last night's interview was Colbert's point regarding journalistic integrity in the videogame industry. It's not something anyone should care about, so basing your movement's philosophy on such a dumb point is incredibly stupid. Gamergate is utterly retarded (in the literal sense).

Sarkeesian was incredibly nervous during that interview (as most people are on Colbert), but she made her point very well - instead of trying to rescue the princess, why can't she rescue herself?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 1:30 pm 
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Time to break this out...
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My wife and daughter have a matching set.


Purchased by me.


Of course, it was more a comment on my laziness.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:40 pm 
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Ericubus wrote:
DEVELOPMENT TIME!

It will take away all sorts of development time and resources on chick stuff, DAMN FEMINAZIS!

That is the more reasoned argument. In reality the amount given will be minimal compared to the overall picture.

Yah, I've seen that argument made. It's a semi-reasonable argument when you're talking about heavily story-driven games -- you just can't offer a lot of player choice and still have a tight narrative in a game like, say, Uncharted -- though that doesn't preclude developers from writing a story that isn't Guy Rescues Woman for the umpteenth time.

For a lot of games, as you point out, the added time and cost is so negligible as to be non-existent. Adding some female character models to Call of Duty, for instance? That's the kind of thing hobbyist modders do in a weekend.

There's some indie game in development by the creator of Megaman or something. People were all excited. They hired some gal to do their social media PR, and she ended up having ideas for some female robots to add to the game. The developers liked them and might use them. Gamers Gate people had a shitfit about it. It was, they said, another example of feminism trying to ruin games.

These people need to get a grip.
Chris Knight wrote:
I think the best thing about last night's interview was Colbert's point regarding journalistic integrity in the videogame industry. It's not something anyone should care about, so basing your movement's philosophy on such a dumb point is incredibly stupid.

Considering games journalism has only ever been 1) cheerleading for the games you like, or 2) rewriting press releases from game publishers and calling it a preview, yeah, it's kind of silly to pretend that it's suddenly some Big Important Issue.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 7:59 am 
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Shoe wrote:
Pender wrote:
It is absurd to think that men will be overwhelmingly supportive of losing their desire for dominant sex.

I don't think anyone is asking for this, though. I think there is just a desire to have the gaming community be more inclusive. Not necessarily replacing the T&A and the like, but also having better written female characters who exist as more than tits or someone to be rescued in addition to the usual stuff. A desire to see more games that reflect a broader array of people, not just the usual adolescent boy power fantasies. I don't see how anyone could reasonably think that's a bad thing.

I think that she was indeed asking for men to curtail their desires for "objectified women."

She specifically spoke out against this.

She probably hates Lawrence Of Arabia, too, since there are no women in a strong role for that film.

Let's not forget Citizen Kane, or Taxi Driver, or a thousand other films out there that do little or nothing for women.

But, then, let's look to the overblown female entertainment industry, like Lifetime.

That fucking channel has nothing but male characters that are shit. Every fucking movie and show on there, Jesus Fucking H Christ, I cannot stand a second of it. Don't even get me started on shows like The View where man-bashing is the norm.

But, hey, I realize that women sometimes need to over-criticize men in sweeping generalizations.

Yes, we're all pigs that desire your lady friends and abuse women when no one is looking. All men need to be tied to a burning bed. Yes, yes, I get it. Women are oh so fucking much better than men.

blah fucking blah

I get it.

I grew up with nothing but women around me. Many of them lesbian feminists.

So, I really do get it.

Her demand for the removal of every T&A aspect of the game is shit. It is censorship.

Her claim also that the objectification of women in video games leads to the objectification in real-life is about as solid as the same argument and movement against violence in video games.

That movement was proven inaccurate and I believe her argument holds about the same amount of water.

I have more than enough faith in real women that any man that thinks he can run around as his character does in GTA will eventually be put down. Most likely by the authorities as part of that character aspect is the use of guns and other weapons to kill people randomly.

All that said, would the addition of strong female roles in some games enhance and benefit the actual game play of video games?

Abso-fucking-lutely.

People like James Cameron have done well by using strong female characters and yet effectively kept the entertainment value at a high mark.

But, shit, a lot of video games out there could use ANY enhancement to their "story" to make it better.

Not every movie is a good movie.

Not every TV show is a good show.

Can a good movie have "objectified" women and still be good? Sure.

Can a good TV show have man-bashing and still be good? Sure (as much as I hate The View, it is very popular and considered "good" by a lot of people).

I don't think the objectification of women (or man-bashing) precludes entertainment value. The opposite is likely just as true. Even a mixture of both could be of value - and likelier more true to reality.

I just know that women tend to complain more about things like this than men do. Likely because of the history that they have had to endure eons of men wanting to shove their penises into their orifices. Also likely because most the accepted entertainment industry has been male-dominated for centuries.

Shakespeare was a dude, after all.

I also know if women want a bigger say in shit, all they have to do is do it. If this woman wants games that are more acceptable to her, she should fucking make one, or help someone she knows create one that she will like.

Additionally, if the video game industry out there thinks they are doing well (which according to some reports I've read, they aren't - declining sales and so forth) by excluding a potential market of making better games.... Well, then they are fucking morons.

Which most likely they are fucking morons.

Anita Sarkeesian might just be an attention whore, IMHO.

What does she really hope to accomplish by all of this yammering?

Is her real goal to expose all the assholes in the world or is it just to get on shows like The Colbert Report?

Because those are the only two things I think she will accomplish.

Who knows?

Maybe I am wrong and maybe she will inspire a game to be created that is fucking badass that has nothing but fully-clothed women running around doing womanly things that are awesome and very feministic.

8-)

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 10:05 pm 
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Pender wrote:
Shoe wrote:
Pender wrote:
It is absurd to think that men will be overwhelmingly supportive of losing their desire for dominant sex.

I don't think anyone is asking for this, though. I think there is just a desire to have the gaming community be more inclusive. Not necessarily replacing the T&A and the like, but also having better written female characters who exist as more than tits or someone to be rescued in addition to the usual stuff. A desire to see more games that reflect a broader array of people, not just the usual adolescent boy power fantasies. I don't see how anyone could reasonably think that's a bad thing.

I think that she was indeed asking for men to curtail their desires for "objectified women."

She specifically spoke out against this.

She probably hates Lawrence Of Arabia, too, since there are no women in a strong role for that film.

Let's not forget Citizen Kane, or Taxi Driver, or a thousand other films out there that do little or nothing for women.

But, then, let's look to the overblown female entertainment industry, like Lifetime.

That fucking channel has nothing but male characters that are shit. Every fucking movie and show on there, Jesus Fucking H Christ, I cannot stand a second of it. Don't even get me started on shows like The View where man-bashing is the norm.

But, hey, I realize that women sometimes need to over-criticize men in sweeping generalizations.

Yes, we're all pigs that desire your lady friends and abuse women when no one is looking. All men need to be tied to a burning bed. Yes, yes, I get it. Women are oh so fucking much better than men.

blah fucking blah

I get it.

I grew up with nothing but women around me. Many of them lesbian feminists.

So, I really do get it.

Her demand for the removal of every T&A aspect of the game is shit. It is censorship.

Her claim also that the objectification of women in video games leads to the objectification in real-life is about as solid as the same argument and movement against violence in video games.

That movement was proven inaccurate and I believe her argument holds about the same amount of water.

I have more than enough faith in real women that any man that thinks he can run around as his character does in GTA will eventually be put down. Most likely by the authorities as part of that character aspect is the use of guns and other weapons to kill people randomly.

All that said, would the addition of strong female roles in some games enhance and benefit the actual game play of video games?

Abso-fucking-lutely.

People like James Cameron have done well by using strong female characters and yet effectively kept the entertainment value at a high mark.

But, shit, a lot of video games out there could use ANY enhancement to their "story" to make it better.

Not every movie is a good movie.

Not every TV show is a good show.

Can a good movie have "objectified" women and still be good? Sure.

Can a good TV show have man-bashing and still be good? Sure (as much as I hate The View, it is very popular and considered "good" by a lot of people).

I don't think the objectification of women (or man-bashing) precludes entertainment value. The opposite is likely just as true. Even a mixture of both could be of value - and likelier more true to reality.

I just know that women tend to complain more about things like this than men do. Likely because of the history that they have had to endure eons of men wanting to shove their penises into their orifices. Also likely because most the accepted entertainment industry has been male-dominated for centuries.

Shakespeare was a dude, after all.

I also know if women want a bigger say in shit, all they have to do is do it. If this woman wants games that are more acceptable to her, she should fucking make one, or help someone she knows create one that she will like.

Additionally, if the video game industry out there thinks they are doing well (which according to some reports I've read, they aren't - declining sales and so forth) by excluding a potential market of making better games.... Well, then they are fucking morons.

Which most likely they are fucking morons.

Anita Sarkeesian might just be an attention whore, IMHO.

What does she really hope to accomplish by all of this yammering?

Is her real goal to expose all the assholes in the world or is it just to get on shows like The Colbert Report?

Because those are the only two things I think she will accomplish.

Who knows?

Maybe I am wrong and maybe she will inspire a game to be created that is fucking badass that has nothing but fully-clothed women running around doing womanly things that are awesome and very feministic.

8-)


:hole1: :hole1: :hole1: :hole1: :hole1:


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 9:03 am 
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WARNING - The crying is real in this video.

Skip to about the 10:00:00 mark to see the real meat of the incident.



The debate has been building on this one - did the kid deserve what he got because he was asking to cheat? Did KirmitTHEfrog violate community policies and codes of conduct and deserve banning? Or even worse, did Kirmit actually perform an act of Cyberbullying and be held accountable in a court of law?

You decide.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:35 am 
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Text version, please.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:39 am 
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I don't have a clue what I just watched, other than that game has way too many menus, and I definitely don't like that UI. Who is/was getting bullied here, and for what reason? ELI5.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 11:33 am 
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Eric wrote:
Text version, please.

Kid had 3 characters in Destiny game.

Two were fairly high level (one level below the highest level possible) and one was mid-high level.

On average, it will take a person many weeks to level each one of those two fairly high level characters.

So, those two fairly high level characters represent on the order of a couple-few months of playing.

The mid-high level character probably was about another 2-3 weeks.

This doesn't include the time spent gaining equipment and so forth (which can be more weeks of leveling each one).

Kid was streaming when he was approached via a friend by a stranger that offered to show him a glitch that would allow him to quickly level his mid-high character (and presumably other characters).

The kid agreed to the request of allowing the stranger use his account via PS4's SharePlay feature.

For some reason, the kid walked away briefly once the stranger (KirmitTHEfrog) got full control. Not that there would have been much he could have done to stop what happened as it only took a couple seconds.

Now, what happened was this:

1. Kirmit quickly looked at the characters in the kid's account
2. He immediately deleted both high-level characters (and all the equipment they were carrying)
3. He quickly went into the equipment list of the remaining character and found an exotic weapon and deleted that (as I stated, leveling certain weapons can require weeks of time since material availability are capped at specific amounts each week)
4. The kid returned at this point and DC'd the PS4 (you can hear him gasping at this point)
5. When the kid reboots the PS4 he doesn't seem to realize the full extent of the damage and only checks the one character and sees the missing exotic weapon
6. The kid hunts down Kirmit in a Party Chat group and bravely declares he didn't want the weapon that was deleted any way, and then disconnects from the Party Chat to get back to his character list
7. At this point the kid finally realizes that his two highest level characters have been deleted with all their shit
8. Disbelief statements are uttered over and over and then the kid begins to sob uncontrollably and the video ends


This is essentially the cyber version of allowing someone to come into your house with the promise that they will make your TV bigger and your rent cheaper.

You go to your car or something and return moments later to see your most valuable belongings on fire and destroyed.

Further, it has now come to light that apparently this Kirmit dude is 38 years-old (the kid is reportedly only 11 years-old).

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 11:48 am 
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1. Kid shouldn't have tried to cheat and should probably go outside more often.

2. Grownup is an asshole who should be banned.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:13 pm 
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1. Kid shouldn't have tried to cheat and should probably go outside more often.

2. Grownup is an asshole who should be banned.


The worst villain in this by far, of course, is the adult. Cheating sucks, yes, but what the adult did is well over the line - especially since he went looking for a kid to fuck with, not vice versa. Had it been the kid who was actively looking for opportunities to cheat maybe he needs comeuppance, but the adult approaching him first?

Fuck that guy.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:20 pm 
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Eric wrote:
1. Kid shouldn't have tried to cheat and should probably go outside more often.

He definitely shouldn't cheat.

But the Patriots cheat, so why not? :wink:

I mean, really, there are no practical reasons anymore why kids should maintain any moral or ethical choices when people all around them are praised and rewarded for cheating systems and gaming the rules for personal gain all the time.

But, yes, I think he shouldn't try to cheat.

I also found it more than amusing that he pronounced 'Achilles' as ah-chill-leez and then during a message he wrote know and meant 'now.'

I think poor education skills likely contribute to his horrible sense of right and wrong.

Eric wrote:
2. Grownup is an asshole who should be banned.

I couldn't agree more.

I had played with one kid and had no idea he was a kid the first time.

The second time we played he had his mic on and I instantly knew he was a kid.

I debated for a little while and then deleted and blocked him from my account.

There is no reason why a grown man should ever be playing video games with a kid unless that kid is your son, nephew, or otherwise related in one fashion or another.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:24 pm 
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Pender wrote:
I mean, really, there are no practical reasons anymore why kids should maintain any moral or ethical choices when people all around them are praised and rewarded for cheating systems and gaming the rules for personal gain all the time.

But, yes, I think he shouldn't try to cheat.

I'm not familiar enough with Destiny to know which it is, but I'd only denounce his cheating if it has an impact on other players. If the game is competitive and cheating gives him a leg up on others, then he sucks for trying to cheat.

If it has no impact on the experience of others, though, then I don't even care that much about the cheating. It's his game experience; let him do it how he wants.

I have for SURE cheated in some single-player games, and even in an MMO (Everquest; I played on an unofficial server that was reconfigured to make it easier. Essentially, it was cheating.)

I've never cheated when competing against others, though. That's shitty.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:37 pm 
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Besiege looks pleasurable...
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:43 pm 
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Shoe wrote:
1. Kid shouldn't have tried to cheat and should probably go outside more often.

2. Grownup is an asshole who should be banned.

Ya, that was full on entrapment, and the guy should be banned, and there could even be a case for financial restitution.

Hopefully the kid has learned a bit about cheating and trusting people he doesn't know.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:43 pm 
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Shoe wrote:
Pender wrote:
I mean, really, there are no practical reasons anymore why kids should maintain any moral or ethical choices when people all around them are praised and rewarded for cheating systems and gaming the rules for personal gain all the time.

But, yes, I think he shouldn't try to cheat.

I'm not familiar enough with Destiny to know which it is, but I'd only denounce his cheating if it has an impact on other players. If the game is competitive and cheating gives him a leg up on others, then he sucks for trying to cheat.

If it has no impact on the experience of others, though, then I don't even care that much about the cheating. It's his game experience; let him do it how he wants.

I have for SURE cheated in some single-player games, and even in an MMO (Everquest; I played on an unofficial server that was reconfigured to make it easier. Essentially, it was cheating.)

I've never cheated when competing against others, though. That's shitty.

Technically, this personal cheating (or internal cheating) is nearly worse than cheating others.

The "cheating" he was attempting would really have no impact on me, but I think the cheating he was attempting would have cheated him of the real experience of the game.

And that is where I see a problem.

About the same as playing solitaire cards and cheating yourself by not admitting defeat and instead putting the cards in the order you need or want so you can win.

At that point, what the fuck is point?

Do you really want your son to play games that way, Shoe?

If you don't like a game's system, don't play it anymore.

I've had people cheating at D&D at my table from time to time and sure it never really impacted others (everyone was awarded the same XP for participating in overcoming monsters), but once I found out, I would just smile and act like I was marking off Hit Points after their 15th critical hit in a row. In actuality, I was not doing a damn thing.

I think your other point about the kid not actively seeking to cheat is more important to the situation.

The adult approached the kid with an offered cheat.

If someone did this to me, I would think long and hard about it before actually doing it - a child doesn't have that critical cutoff to impulse decision making.

So, the kid was extremely vulnerable to the temptation.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:46 pm 
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Pender wrote:
The "cheating" he was attempting would really have no impact on me, but I think the cheating he was attempting would have cheated him of the real experience of the game...
I can see your point, but the kid had already had the gaming experience with 2 other characters, he was getting the third to go up quickly.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:46 pm 
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Besiege lets you kill sheep in horrible ways...it's fun.

Also, the fact that the PS4 allows minors to allow outside players to actively take control of your console/account is...mind-blowingly stupid.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:47 pm 
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Chris Knight wrote:
Besiege lets you kill sheep in horrible ways...it's fun.
:)
I'm going to have to try it after reading through this article...

http://www.dorkly.com/post/72578/the-bestmost-hilarious-war-contraptions-created-in-besiege

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:48 pm 
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Ericubus wrote:
Besiege looks pleasurable...
Image

Bukkake windmills with fiery spooj?

That does seem fun.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:53 pm 
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Chris Knight wrote:
Also, the fact that the PS4 allows minors to allow outside players to actively take control of your console/account is...mind-blowingly stupid.

There are parental controls that parents are supposed to set up to prevent this by default.

Destiny is also a game that is rated T.

This kid is at least 2 years younger than the recommended age.

Also, what parent in their right mind would allow their 11 year-old son to stream their voice (and game play) to the world unmonitored?

Do you let your kids broadcast live on YouTube without supervision?

I doubt it.

Same thing here.

All the adults in this situation seem to share in a lot of the failure in this incident.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 1:11 pm 
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Pender wrote:
About the same as playing solitaire cards and cheating yourself by not admitting defeat and instead putting the cards in the order you need or want so you can win.

At that point, what the fuck is point?

To pass the time or entertain yourself or whatever. In your example I don't see how that would be fun, of course ...

This case is different, though. Two people can play the same video game for different reasons. You might just want to experience playing through the story, or you just like exploring the world (that's one of the things I like in games) but don't care about challenges, or you love shooters that let you blow tons of shit up but don't necessarily have fun with uber challenging firefights. Other people love leveling up, or hunting for rare loot, or challenging fights, or whatever.

A lot of modern games offer a wide range of experience. You can pursue the ones you want and ignore the others.

For example, I have played SimCity 3000 for many many years. I LOVE the game. And you know, I'm not sure if I've ever played it without a money cheat. That's because for me, the enjoyment comes in building and designing cities. That's the part I like. I don't care about all the financial challenges and oddball stuff the game throws at you when you play it the "right" way. I just like to lay down roads and zones and watch the way the city grows, just a little sandbox.
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Do you really want your son to play games that way, Shoe?

Totally don't care, as long as he doesn't cheat others. I think he should pursue the experience he wants out of the games he plays. He's pretty militant about his strategy games because strategy is the whole point. I know on Skyrim, he has mods installed that make things easier because he just likes to wander around killing shit.
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If you don't like a game's system, don't play it anymore.

Eh. A modern game can be more than just its rules or mechanics.

I'm really interested in Destiny's world, but have no interest in the grind. I'd totally be down for an offline version modded so I could breeze past the grind and instead just experience the world and story.

I've played the STALKER games. Hard. As. Fuck. The ardent fans of the series like it that way, too. I also think the challenge is part of the experience, but not to the extent they do. I'm more interested in exploring the complex world of the game than I am having shit hard firefights.
Quote:
I've had people cheating at D&D at my table from time to time and sure it never really impacted others (everyone was awarded the same XP for participating in overcoming monsters), but once I found out, I would just smile and act like I was marking off Hit Points after their 15th critical hit in a row. In actuality, I was not doing a damn thing.

I think that IS cheating someone else, though: it's cheating YOU. You might be the DM, not a player, but running people through your creation and seeing how they get through it is your part of the fun. Someone cheats when they do it, they are depriving you of an essential part of the experience.

Plus, D&D can take a competitive shift. Characters end up fighting, or last man standing gets the loot from the boss, or whatever. That cheating can in theory give them an unfair leg up on other players.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 1:49 pm 
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Pender wrote:
If you don't like a game's system, don't play it anymore.

Kobayashi Maru, dude.

and mods.

Just Cause 2 is probably one of my favourite PC games of the 21st century. And not because it's a good game. It's because I can change any parameter of the game to my liking. The grappling hook only shoots 25 feet? Let's change that to 3 miles. My parachute doesn't have jet engines? Now it does.

It promotes cheating. Of course, it was a single-player game, until someone modded it to become multi-player. That JC 2MP online environment is a haven for cheating. And it's fun as hell, because everyone is doing it. There are no restrictions, so nobody cries like a bitch.

I've racked up hundreds of hours in Skyrim. I don't need to cheat at all, but I'll damn well enable god-mode if a baddie takes more than 5 minutes of my time to kill. Or if I'm a few gold pieces short, I'm just going to add 5,000 gold on a whim.

Etc.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 2:01 pm 
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Chris Knight wrote:
I've racked up hundreds of hours in Skyrim. I don't need to cheat at all, but I'll damn well enable god-mode if a baddie takes more than 5 minutes of my time to kill.

It doesn't happen much anymore because I've drifted away from games like this, but there have been occasions where I've gotten bored with a game but still wanted to at least see how the story resolved. God mode on, blast my way through just to see it through to the end. No guilt.

Skyrim is a game I could actually stand to be a little harder, but that's the beauty of it. You can do that if you want. Adjust the difficult or mod in add-ons that ramp things up a bit.

I mean, I get what Pender is saying to some extent. No one wants to play pre-solved Sudoku puzzles. What's the point? You're just filling in some empty squares with numbers. If you're playing a game like Myst or something and have all the puzzle solutions ahead of time, what are you doing except pointing and clicking on some switches?

But yeah, analogies like that only go so far.

I love playing old platformers with emulators, mostly because I can save the game anywhere I want. That is TOTALLY cheating, but you know what? I'm not 12 years old anymore. I'm not going to spend three months mastering the intricacies of six levels of challenge. I just want to spend an hour having fun blowing through the game. I get to experience the levels and stuff, but not the frustration of having to master that stuff.

I loved Super Mario Galaxy for that reason. It was just challenging enough to feel like you were doing something, but it was never frustrating. Mostly you were just having shitloads of fun jumping around in crazy levels.



Other times I DO want a challenge and dislike when things are too easy. Depends on the game.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:01 am 
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Apparently the troll in the Destiny Kirmit incident was possibly himself trolled.

The owner of the KirmitTHEfrog account was actually unaware that his account had been used to attack the young boy's account.

Man Accused Of Deleting 11-Year-Old's Destiny Data Also A Victim

Quote:
Adam tells me that he has a little brother and he wouldn’t want to see him hurt like Henry was. “I feel bad for that little kid,” he says. “If my little brother tried to play my game, I would not let him. Plus, if he tried to cheat on anything I would smack him on the side of his head. People on games cheat, but [it’s] not good to teach or let little kids do that, they don’t get it yet.”


Further, "Adam" [a false name used by the reporter to protect the reputed owner of the KirmitTHEfrog account], had apparently allowed his PS4 to be used by any and all visitors during his recovery after a verified near-fatal crash.

Since the incident, which has been highly publicized across the Destiny community (nearly 500K views by this morning), Kirmit has had his account locked and secured.

Why do people allow others to use their accounts?

I don't even let my wife use my account.

It seems to me the two most perfect acts of naivité combined to create this shit storm.

8-)

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:09 am 
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On a far more interesting note -

GROWN-ASS SON/MAN: I SEE ONE OF YOU IS NAMED MOUSE. HA, I SHOULD NAME MY CHARACTER "CAT" SO I CAN GET THE MOUSE.

MOTHER: HA, THAT'S FUNNY, SON.

GAS/M: NAH, I WOULD RATHER STICK WITH MY NAME, MONKEY. BECAUSE I AIN'T NO PUSSY.

MOTHER: HA, THAT'S FUNNY, SON.

GAS/M: A MONKEY CUMS ON EVERYTHING AND THROWS SHIT AT PEOPLE. THAT'S WHAT I DO. I LOVE CUMMING ON EVERYTHING AND THROWING SHIT.

MOTHER: HA, YES SON, YES YOU DO! YOU'RE SO CUTE.

OUR REACTION: :noclue:

10 minutes later (after we've pretty much been stunned into silence).

GAS/M: THIS GROUP SURE DOESN'T TALK MUCH.

MOTHER: WELL, I CAN ADD EVERYONE TO MY FRIENDS LIST, IF YOU GUYS WANT?

1-2 minutes of silence.

MOTHER: NO ONE'S GOING TO SAY ANYTHING? WELL, IF YOU WANT TO BE MY FRIEND, YOU GUYS CAN SEND ME A REQUEST.

Less than a 2 minutes of silence.

MOTHER: I STILL HAVEN'T GOT ANYTHING FROM ANYONE..... THAT'S FINE, IF YOU GUYS DON'T WANT TO BE MY FRIEND, THAT'S OKAY.... NO ONE WANTS TO ADD ME?

GAS/M: MY MOTHER IS A GOOD PLAYER, GUYS. SHE HAS GOOD WEAPONS AND TWO LEVEL 32s (editor - the highest level characters possible in Destiny). YOU SHOULD ADD HER.

MOTHER: NOTHING? NO ONE'S TALKING. IS ANYONE NOT GOING TO ADD ME?

Etc.

Holy fuck, man.

I had the son on my friends list after doing a random request for a raid team. You need 6 deliberate people joined together as a team to do a raid in Destiny - the hardest missions possible in the game - and we are sometimes one or two people short, so I am usually the one relegated to finding new blood.

Well, the son, although mildly annoying, had joined us one time for about 30 minutes.

Never thought much of him since that first time until 2 weeks later he shows up (as he was on my "friend" list, he was able to join us as we were gathering a team). Since we needed another, I didn't kick him immediately, plus he at least asked if he could stay.

Within another 5 minutes he had become and said some really offending stuff which was met with silence by me and my regular group.

I sent a message asking if everyone wanted him to stay or for me to kick him.

Unfortunately, PlayStation messaging is notoriously tardy and my message didn't reach everyone until an hour or two after the whole incident.

Another 10 minutes of the annoying son by himself and then his mother jumped in via the son and started yammering.

At which point we were all pretty silent until the mother started trying to tell everyone what to do - which was all total BS.

We had our tactics down and these two nearly refused to listen until I had to raise my voice and talk over them until they shut the fuck up and listened to what we were planning.

During the raid we were doing, each person has a job and sector to cover. Everyone has to trust that the other is doing their job and not vary from their own job. But, for fuck's sake, these two were wanting to talk the whole time - with shit like the above (there was more than a dozen exchanges between them that made everyone uncomfortable - we discussed the incident after having had it).

Eventually I blocked and deleted them from my account.

Later in the weekend, we were playing with one guy from a friend list of one of the other regulars that had a very young (and reportedly) annoying son.

We got to a point where the father added the son into an open spot. Our regular had dealt with the son before and wanted no part of him, so we eventually all ignored everyone and people went their separate ways with the son screaming in the background about people not adding him.

The thing is, these incidents seem to be the norm, I guess, in the gaming world.

I've never played with other people much any other time until now with Destiny, which requires building teams and friends that are dedicated to each other. Those are awesome aspects and we have a core group of 4 or 5 people that I can rely on 98% of the time. But with the incidents like those above, I just wonder how off-kilter shit has got in the realm of human relations.

Seriously, it is nearly breaking down to a 50/50 chance that you find other people that aren't racist, prejudiced, radically religious, extremely obscene, just plain stupid, or all of those combined.

It is also amazing how many "trash" folk end up with a gaming console worth over $500 and have the money to buy the online service and the game with DLC expansion costs.

Anyone else have these type of incidents?

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