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 Post subject: 4K Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:30 am 
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Coming Xmas 2015 - an entirely new Blu-Ray disc format, capable of playing 4K media at up to 60fps. There is no possible way for current players to be made compatible with this new format, including the PS3 (still, in my opinion, the best Blu-Ray player out there).

This is still very much vaporware, and will be going up against streaming content (also at 4K by next Xmas). The players and the movies will be expensive, so I suspect this is really targeted at hardcore home theatre people, not people who buy their TVs on Black Friday at Wal-Mart.


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 Post subject: Re: 4K Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 1:13 pm 
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I hope my 720p projector holds out until 4k projectors are in my budget.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 1:56 pm 
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Has anyone seen (samples of) a proper movie in 4K yet? I mean on a 4K TV or home-projector. All you see in stores are demo-shots of land- and cityscapes. Which of course look flawless. But the truth is elsewhere.

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 Post subject: Re: 4K Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 2:12 pm 
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The digital movies you watch in a movie theatre are projected at 4096×2160. Consumer 4K, known as UHDTV is slightly less (3840 x 2160), but that difference is negligible on a non-IMAX sized screen. So, what you see in a movie theatre is what 4K Blu-Ray will deliver at home.

The 30th anniversary Ghostbusters release that is going around theatres right now, would be indicative of what an older catalog title will look like on 4K Blu-Ray.

And the copy protection will be epic.


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 Post subject: Re: 4K Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 2:18 pm 
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Yeah, that's what I'm asking. Has anyone seen a 4K movie on a 4K home-TV/projector?
I screen 4K movies every other weekend on to a 12 meter screen. But I have no idea how that will look like on, say, 100 inches (compared to regular 1080).

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 Post subject: Re: 4K Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 2:22 pm 
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The encoding is still in its early stages. 4K encodes will use the new MP5 codec (MP4 will be going the way of MPEG-2), so any 4K movies around right now (Sony has a bunch out on their home theatre projection system), won't have the same quality that next year's demo material will be showing off.

So, no. Nobody outside of the movie studios has seen these yet.


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 Post subject: Re: 4K Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 2:26 pm 
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Thanks.

Until next year, then.

[cue Monty screaming he's not going to buy all his movies in another fucking format again]

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 Post subject: Re: 4K Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 3:55 pm 
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MP5.

Great.

I have been spending the last week (and likely will be spending all this weekend) transferring fucking files from Florida to my machine. I can just imagine the size of shit when we all go to MP5.

Are GoPro cams shooting 4K now?

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 Post subject: Re: 4K Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 4:37 pm 
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Pender wrote:
I have been spending the last week (and likely will be spending all this weekend) transferring fucking files from Florida to my machine. I can just imagine the size of shit when we all go to MP5.

It is not actually called MP5, but rather h.265 or HEVC (but, just as MP4 is actually H.264 or AVCHD, nobody will ever use the official terms - so I'm just skipping ahead a bit). And The codec was designed specifically with streaming in mind. So, a 5 minute 4K MP5, will take up the same amount of space as a 5 minute 1080p MP4. Additionally, if you stick with 720 or 1080, you can cut the file size in half, without losing any quality. If you're just getting into archiving lots of video, using H.265 is a no-brainer (it will be an industry standard codec by this time next year, so every media streaming device and phone will be able to view the format).

Pender wrote:
Are GoPro cams shooting 4K now?

The Black edition was the first GoPro that could shoot 4K, and that was two years ago (I think the newest one can shoot 4K at 48fps). The big must-have 4K camera these days is the Panasonic GH4. It costs $1,500, and pretty much destroyed the market for DSLR cameras that are geared toward video shooters. Canon has nothing like it in this price range, and Sony's new baby (A7S) costs $1,000 more (and can shoot, but can't record 4K - it needs an outboard recorder to get there). At the upper end of the professional level (the cameras used to record Hollywood blockbusters), many cameras shoot 5K and 6K. The reason for that is so that footage can be reframed and/or stabilized in editing (thereby cropping the shot), without losing any resolution when playing back at 4K. The lenses required to shoot at this quality are crazy expensive (which makes for a booming rental industry).


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 Post subject: Re: 4K Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 1:02 am 
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Heard about this a couple of months ago on Digital Bits. It's good to see physical media with some sort of future but I can't say that I'm terribly excited about it from a collector's standpoint (and as CK said, 4K streaming will have a pretty big headstart by the time this even comes to market) . Watching 1080p on a 120 inch screen is still pretty spectacular. 4K is just overkill for the home theater market, I think. I'm sure there will be a time when 4K is the norm, but it won't be seen as the quantum leap in picture quality that SD to HD was. I'm still hardpressed to find regular folk (such as most of my wife's family) who can regularly tell the difference between SD and HD -- I imagine that will be even less so with 1080p to 4K.

On a related note, I caught the recent 4K digital theatrical showing of Ghostbusters. And I also own the 4K-mastered BD. Due to the source, it was a pretty soft-looking presentation and I can't say definitively that I noticed much of a difference aside from the larger screen size. I did notice a lot of the flaws that are inherent to that particular 4K restoration (such as the weird little localized pulsating moire effect on the arm of the statue in the opening title card shot -- it doesn't exist on any other version that I've owned). So for catalog titles -- especially from the 80's -- 4K at home may be a bit of a wash. Definitely not worth the premium to get it.

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 Post subject: Re: 4K Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 7:19 am 
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10 years ago (well, January 2005), people on DVDFILE responded the exact same way about HD-DVD and Blu-Ray. I think most of them were being very defensive, having spent thousands on DVDs. Defending 10-year old technology doesn't work. 4K media is better, regardless of whether it's physical or downloaded.

Consumers will buy anything these days (3D TVs, curved TVs). By next Xmas, all mid-range PC monitors (and laptops) will be 4K compatible (and you can bet tablets and phones will have 4K resolutions) - so consumers will simply want stuff with 4K written all over it.

The difference between now and a decade ago, is the option of streaming, or downloading media. I think there's still a sizable consumer base that doesn't have access to fast internet, or still don't trust buying a non-physical piece of media. Comcast and Netflix will do everything in their power to convince you streaming is the better option (and for many, it will be), so any new physical format will have an uphill battle on its hands (especially if movie distributors would allow you to upgrade downloaded movies from 1080p to 4K, for little to no money).

Blu-Ray 4K will either become the next SACD, D-VHS (catering only to the higher-end HT consumer base), or it will become like Blu-Ray 3D - an experiment that studios get bored with after a couple of years. I can't imagine it will take off like Blu-Ray, as consumers have proven they will sacrifice quality for convenience - but most people speculated Blu-Ray wouldn't be around for a decade, and it's still here.

And the Blu-Ray 4K spec supports resolutions up to 8K. So, that'll be something else to look forward to in another 5-8 years.


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 Post subject: Re: 4K Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 2:03 pm 
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Oh, I'm not saying I won't buy anything 4K. I'm sure that media companies and hardware manufacturers will make it rather lucrative to consumers. And Bluray 4K will have it's day in the sun, but that day won't be nearly as bright as it was with DVD and BD. I think that we're really getting into the law of diminishing returns here quality-wise. I'm just not going to go to the lengths I went to with BD (and am still going, actually) to convert my collection to 4K. I will definitely make sure the essentials are covered, though -- to a point.

I've upgraded roughly half of my initial DVD collection to BD with the other half being either being stuff I'm not really interesting in upgrading or it's stuff that's not out on BD in an acceptable form, yet. Likewise, 4K versions of stuff I already have will have to be something pretty special for me to upgrade. I watched The Dark Knight Rises BD last night on a large screen and I couldn't help but think, "How much better could this really look in 4K?" Quibbles with the movie aside, the BD is absolutely stunning -- especially on a large screen. I'd like to see how much better the IMAX scenes would look, I guess, but would that really be worth the upgrade?

Now streaming options will be interesting. I do have a sizable Ultraviolet collection now and Vudu (Walmart) makes getting UV versions of movies you already own as simple as possible. It's 2 bucks for a straight conversion and you get 50 percent off when you do 10 titles or more. I added 21 titles last week for 20 bucks (first one was free). I love my BD's but it is awfully convenient to just pull up something real quick on my Chromecast even if the quality is a bit less. If they eventually offer deals like that with 4K, I'd be a bit more inclined to bite.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 3:59 pm 
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Chris Knight wrote:
10 years ago (well, January 2005), people on DVDFILE responded the exact same way about HD-DVD and Blu-Ray.
And apparently rightly so...

Don't get me wrong. I have no idea, why anyone would watch a DVD of something that is also available in Blu-Ray. But the sad fact is, that over half a decade later, Blu-Ray sales and rentals are just about the same as DVD. In the same time, January 2005, if you will, the DVD completely obliterated VHS sales and rentals. Most people born after 1995 probably don't even remember ever seeing VHS tapes on sale. In 2005, aside from not even having the option anymore of buying or renting 2005 release titles on VHS, you'd be laughed at for even asking. Today, every other idiot doesn't care and still goes for SD over HD.
The Blu-Ray revolution is nowhere near as big as the DVD was.

What Downhuman said of law of diminishing returns is... le point. HD looks better than SD screened on anything smaller than my cock (and 50% of people *still* don't care/get it). 4K will only look better than HD screened on anything bigger than probably 60 inches (bigger than my cock). If not more. I'd be very surprised if in 2025, 4K discs make more than 10% of all physical dics sales. Hell, a 10% market share in streaming content would be as miraculous, considering today's 3rd-world state of U.S.A internet connections.
Either way, I don't really give a shit, never having bought a single a Blu-Ray disc. It's a pirate world, discs are only living in it... :thumbs:

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 Post subject: Re: 4K Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 4:59 pm 
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If only the pirates had quality control...the recent torrent rip of tie me up, tie me down is just garbage compared to the disc it came from.
Btw, the porn industry recently migrated to 4k, and they've noticed a huge increase in demand for 60fps content. So, one major selling point of 4K isn't just the resolution, but the higher frame rate capabilities as well. Sure, movies look awful at high frame rates, but documentaries, sports and porn will really take advantage of it. And streaming services will have hiccups here, since that requires twice the bandwidth.


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 Post subject: Re: 4K Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 1:54 am 
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Do you mean these two?...

Code:
http://thepiratebay.se/torrent/10940634/Tie.Me.Up.Tie.Me.Down.1989.720p.BluRay.X264-Japhson
http://thepiratebay.se/torrent/10955758/Tie.Me.Up.Tie.Me.Down.1989.1080p.BluRay.X264-Japhson

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 Post subject: Re: 4K Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 7:16 am 
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I'd watch porn on Ried's cock at least once.

Just the tip though. I'm not gay, you know?

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 Post subject: Re: 4K Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 7:21 am 
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I am not sure I would get any more benefit out of my plasma with 4K.

Updating to 4K may have to be by 2025, or sooner, but until then....

I fear this technology will fuck up the cable companies even more than they are already fucked. They can't even broadcast HD 100% of the time, tossing 4K at them is just gonna make them that much shittier - not a bad thing, since we may all be free from them eventually.

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 Post subject: Re: 4K Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 7:52 am 
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Netflix is is already streaming 4K to a few beta testers. Another reason to dump cable TV.

Yes, Ried, that 8GB torrent might look ok - but compared to the Blu-Ray, it's just not as good. If these fuckers would just upload the untouched 25+GB original file, I wouldn't buy any movies anymore.

Still, according to my Amazon wishlist, I only have 20 more movies to go before I'm completely done with Blu-Ray. Unless Fox finally decides to release The Abyss.


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 Post subject: Re: 4K Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:23 am 
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The unfortunate thing of only having Netflix or Hulu or some other streaming service is that cable companies are poising to fuck their subscribers with a splintery, unlubed wooden axe handle, too.

Unless you out the fucking nose, your streaming services are gonna be at slower than a snail's pace and your internet is severely limited to Disney and AOL.

Every piece of technology that was cool is just turning to a turd.

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 Post subject: Re: 4K Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:37 am 
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Chris Knight wrote:
If these fuckers would just upload the untouched 25+GB original file, I wouldn't buy any movies anymore.

Leave it to zee Germans to make this too proper...

Code:
http://www.movie-blog.org/index.php?s=untouched+bluray

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 Post subject: Re: 4K Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:44 am 
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Yeah, except that isn't a torrent site - it uses a pay service for file transfer.


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 Post subject: Re: 4K Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 9:15 am 
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Zippyshare and Firedrive are unlimited (in their free service).

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 Post subject: Re: 4K Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 9:41 am 
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Fuck you and your reasoning!

But seriously, I've already bought [insert ludicrous number of your choice] Blu-Rays, so buying 20 more isn't going to kill me. And I do genuinely get a bit of enjoyment out of being able to specifically decide the quality of the encode when I make the MKV for my library.

If 4K Blu-Ray releases more than 20 titles, I'll definitely give it a consideration - because I know the only alternative will be to watch poorly compressed movies online. And I'll only buy a handful of movies that will warrant the increase in quality.


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 Post subject: Re: 4K Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 2:08 pm 
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But do I need a new TV, too?

Or can my Samsung Plasma handle the 4K without degrading the supposed quality boost?

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 Post subject: Re: 4K Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 2:28 pm 
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You will need a new TV. It's akin to watching a Blu-Ray with the yellow composite cable hooked up to a TV, and calling it HD.

Bonus. None of the current 4K TVs are capable of handling HEVC's wide colour spectrum (not even the new OLED models that are looking to displace plasma as the only TV technology you should ever buy). If you're going to buy a TV before next year, don't bother with a 4K one.


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 Post subject: Re: 4K Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 4:57 pm 
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OLED greater than plasma?

Is it true?

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 Post subject: Re: 4K Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 5:15 pm 
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Pender wrote:
OLED greater than plasma?

Is it true?


Not yet.

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 Post subject: Re: 4K Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 4:42 pm 
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OLED is pretty phenomenal.


So Chris, knowing that h.265 is coming I'm assuming the bandwidth requirements for streaming will be lowered? Right now in order to stream 4k content you need 15Mbps sustained. But with better compression coming my guess would be that requirement will be lowered?


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 Post subject: Re: 4K Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 5:18 pm 
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It can be cut in half without any loss in quality (compared to mp4). So, a 7.5 Mbit h.265 stream, will look exactly the same as a 15Mbit h.264 stream. The algorithm was developed with mobile networks in mind.


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 Post subject: Re: 4K Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 6:43 am 
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Chris Knight wrote:
I The algorithm was developed with mobile networks in mind.


4K on a cell phone or tablet is BEYOND overkill.

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 Post subject: Re: 4K Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 6:49 am 
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Downhuman wrote:
Chris Knight wrote:
I The algorithm was developed with mobile networks in mind.


4K on a cell phone or tablet is BEYOND overkill.

h.265 is not about just 4K. It will allow delivery of acceptable 480p (or even 144 - the lowest YouTube resolution) and half the current bandwidth requirements.


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 Post subject: Re: 4K Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:14 am 
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Chris Knight wrote:
h.265 is not about just 4K. It will allow delivery of acceptable 480p (or even 144 - the lowest YouTube resolution) and half the current bandwidth requirements.


And ISPs like Comcast will still throttle the shit out of it anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: 4K Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 9:26 am 
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Now I only need to wait for h.266 which will cut in the half the bandwidth again and allow my 3Mpbs to stream it.

Hopefully by this time next year we'll be moved to upstate New York and enjoying decent internet.


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 Post subject: Re: 4K Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 10:01 am 
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Well here we are, Christmas 2015. I'm still in Mississippi and I haven't seen a 4K bluray player come into the store (yet).


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 Post subject: Re: 4K Blu-Ray
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 10:12 am 
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Techiedude wrote:
Well here we are, Christmas 2015. I'm still in Mississippi and I haven't seen a 4K bluray player come into the store (yet).

You won't for a while. Panasonic's model is only on sale in Japan, and in very limited supply (at a cost of over $3,000 each). The reason for the delay is that there are no movies available yet. The likelihood of Best Buy getting more than a demo unit is slim to none before Xmas. Samsung delayed their model until after CES in January, and Sony says their player will be out in "early 2016". None of these will be cheap, and they will likely be buggy as hell.


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